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Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

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Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#131

Post by dahfizz »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #58
tzs wrote: post #24

I can't give a cite for the following I read it in either a newspaper or magazine probably 30+ years ago. There was a school district in a small town that for the first time gave IQ tests to all of the children in some younger age group, I think around 7 or 8. The results showed a several point difference between the white kids and the Black kids. The district wrote this off as due to cultural bias in the tests. One…

> The district wrote this off as due to cultural bias in the tests. They did not rule this out? Could still have been a contributing factor.

They didn't rule it in either. They chose to ignore the results of the test instead of search for a tangible explaination.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#132

Post by hunter2_ »

wincy wrote: post #95
dfadsadsf wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's uplifting story and I can easily believe that higher lead exposure for Black kids over white kids led to lower IQ results in tests in that specific case, there are no school districts in US with no gap between white and Black students. So far there has not been identified single parameter that explains White/Black gap and not for the lack of trying.

I mean in an interview Steven Pinker himself said there’s some things that we may not want to know, because if the parameter is wholly outside of human control it’d just contribute to racism and serve no useful purpose. Also even if a study found parameters like that, it would never be published as the scientists career would absolutely be ruined.

That's a hell of a minefield, but I'll bite: might a few more generations in our increasingly globalized world (airplane travel, etc.) cause a "melting pot" where pedigree devolves into a homogenous blend that puts everyone on the same playing field? Hard to predict, and it's kind of scary (enjoying the cuisines and other cultural differences is quite special) but the equity would be fascinating.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#133

Post by Aunche »

dTal wrote: post #62
tzs wrote: post #24

I can't give a cite for the following I read it in either a newspaper or magazine probably 30+ years ago. There was a school district in a small town that for the first time gave IQ tests to all of the children in some younger age group, I think around 7 or 8. The results showed a several point difference between the white kids and the Black kids. The district wrote this off as due to cultural bias in the tests. One…

This is an excellent cautionary tale against lazily attributing politically inconvenient data to testing bias (which remains fashionable). It may seem like an easy way out, but it also offers an excuse to simply ignore the problem, which perpetuates it.

Blaming testing bias is a great way to gain support from disadvantaged minorities without having to actually do any meaningful work. Conveniently, it allows allows the elite to exclude the educated bourgeoisie from their elite institutions, instead replacing them with underqualified candidates who pose no real threat to the power hierarchy.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#134

Post by gtsop »

> Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning.

>What can we do to reduce this?

I just love this template of framing important issues:

Step 1: Imply like there isn't anyone respinsible for a problem, as if it is a natural phenomenon, inspite huge corporate interests being the driving force of the problem.

Step 2: Imply that "we" are all together against this evil (although "we" includes the people that cause the evil) and also imply that "we" the common public has some form of power to actually enforce change on such a matter.

Step 3: Propose a solution that just happens to favour some corporate interests antithetical to the ones that cause the problem and imply that "we" all want this, right? Because what is happening right now is bad, so we are all onboard with your solution.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#135

Post by [deleted] »

ip26 wrote: post #104
dTal wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an excellent cautionary tale against lazily attributing politically inconvenient data to testing bias (which remains fashionable). It may seem like an easy way out, but it also offers an excuse to simply ignore the problem, which perpetuates it.

It isn't necessarily just laziness. The first step to fixing the problem means accepting the results, which in this case meant accepting a certain racial group of (silently lead-poisoned) kids had measurably lower intelligence. I don't think I need to explain why that is a minefield.

[deleted]

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#136

Post by ruined »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #125
dfadsadsf wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's uplifting story and I can easily believe that higher lead exposure for Black kids over white kids led to lower IQ results in tests in that specific case, there are no school districts in US with no gap between white and Black students. So far there has not been identified single parameter that explains White/Black gap and not for the lack of trying.

Isn't there an IQ gap between poor people and wealthy? Isn't a large chunck of that attributable to healthcare, nutricion, schooling, stress, pollution, etc, etc.? Aren't those same factors going to show up in racial differences?

yes, yes, yes.

stress in particular has a measurable impact on cognition, behavior, and motor development. even prenatal maternal stress.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w18422

parental leave, cash and food support, and other assistance during pregnancy and childhood, are probably one of the easiest policy wins towards improving outcomes for a huge segment of the population. better schools with smaller class sizes and individualized support for each student would be the next step.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#137

Post by Thetawaves »

narrator wrote: post #103
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and both are fine in laminated materials like solar panels no? No need to scaremonger.

PCBs are fine. It's sealed in transformers. There's an empty lot downtown near me where a substation used to be and they can't build anything on it. A whole city block paved over with a fence around it that will never be used for anything again. Asbestos is fine, it's stuck in the walls, or it's in break pads nobody is inhaling, etc. However, many large industrial companies slowly went broke over decades because of a…

A real-life sacrifice zone. I would be surprised if these aren't common by the end of my life.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#138

Post by cathedral2 »

jjcon wrote: post #87
cathedral2 wrote: post #35

There's a new drug emerging from Berkeley and a company spawned from there called HOPO [1]. The drug is a chelator that has a special affinity for heavy metals in the lanthanide group, which happen to be some of the more toxic metals. This includes gadolinium, which is found in MRI contrast agents, and has been known to cause many-year retention in the bones and skull [2] from just a single dose. "The chelating agent…

Gadolinium seems like one of those things that won't even be allowed in most circumstances in a few more years. It has been used for decades and conventional wisdom was, if your kidneys are fine it all leaves the body in 24 hours. Then just a few years ago we learn this is false and that deposits can be found years later in the brain. The effect may be highly lagged or small, but have to believe it isn't healthy.

No, not healthy at all. There is a condition known as Gadolinium Deposition Disease (GDD) that some people are developing from the retention. The mechanics are not fully understood, and there is a multi-billion dollar industry preventing (or at least not encouraging) any serious inquiry into the matter, but my understanding is that if your body views gadolinium as a threat (similar to an allergy), it will mount an immune response against it. However immune responses are futile against heavy metals. So think of it as a permanent, never-ending allergic reaction to an element that refuses to leave your body.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#139

Post by tombert »

hunter2_ wrote: post #122
tombert wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you argue the disproportionate number of black people being stuck in lead-filled houses is still an example of some sort of oppression? It's not like black people who were shopping for their houses said "Gee, I'd sure like my kids to have lead poisoning."

I think the critical difference is that a gut reno to eliminate the actual source of low IQ is significantly more feasible than swiftly eradicating most of the other issues that contribute to oppression. Identifying low-hanging fruit is a good quick win, so long as it doesn't weaken broader efforts.

Sure, I'm all for quick wins; get lead outta houses, I'm all on board, but we also shouldn't forget the circumstances that caused black people to disproportionately be in lead-filled houses (presumably mostly economic).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that lead poisoning is a symptom of a bigger issue. It's perfectly fine (and encouraged) to treat the symptoms, but I feel like the comment was replying to was acting like we shouldn't attribute things like this to systemic oppression.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#140

Post by rory »

dTal wrote: post #62
tzs wrote: post #24

I can't give a cite for the following I read it in either a newspaper or magazine probably 30+ years ago. There was a school district in a small town that for the first time gave IQ tests to all of the children in some younger age group, I think around 7 or 8. The results showed a several point difference between the white kids and the Black kids. The district wrote this off as due to cultural bias in the tests. One…

This is an excellent cautionary tale against lazily attributing politically inconvenient data to testing bias (which remains fashionable). It may seem like an easy way out, but it also offers an excuse to simply ignore the problem, which perpetuates it.

"Of defects did the spirit of those Saviours consist; but into every defect had they put their illusion, their stop-gap, which they called God."
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