Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#281

Post by tomxor » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #257

tomxor wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because I'm wealthy, I can afford all of the things you get for free in Germany without it negatively affecting my way of life, which probably helps substantially, but that's part of America too. As an outsider, this looks like the biggest problem in the US. The EU is no utopia, but standards of living, environment and way of life is pretty good for the "not-wealthy". In the US, it looks like you can also have a pr…

It's not horrible at all, you're totally right; American society is much more stratified on wealth than the EU is. You have to understand though, when I travel to the EU, my personal quality of life drops, because of that fact. I understand why, and I don't think any less of the EU because of it (I want to live there someday), but if you're lucky enough to be marginally wealthy in the US, it's a whole different exper…

> You're not talking to the median income folks in the US if you come to HN, I would guess.

True, I think there probably is another geographical difference here.

Whenever salaries are discussed on HN there appears to be one or two zeros difference compared to the median salary over here for similar jobs - only as a casual observation, I can't be sure (i.e we get paid significantly less). If it's true, I suspect this is because of the differences in income threshold for a decent standard of living, and because of certain aspects that are mostly decoupled from salary such as social health care.

Another resulting difference then, might be that on average workers of tech jobs in the EU are more likely to rub elbows with and be more relatable to people of "less prestigious" jobs - which I think is probably a good thing - I feel like I'm about to be accused of being a socialist though :P

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#282

Post by oaiey » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #115

How come nobody mentions France in the comments? :) I am French but have been working 12 years for a very large US company , spent a lot of time in the US, go friends there - an witnessed/helped several Americans moving to France. Salary and healthcare were already covered. The fact that over a 3 days drive across Europe you visit 4 or 5 countries with vastly different cultures is a big plus. And by vastly I mean rea…

This less politics and religion in workplace statement is due to the general disinterest in both, not because we stop discussing controversial topics.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#283

Post by bakuninsbart » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #235

boffinAudio wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, there are definitely beautiful places in America - just as there are beautiful places in Australia. But the nationalist culture, the pride and arrogance, the ignorance of the cost to the rest of the world of American moral authority - this is prevalent no matter where you go in the USA. And then, there's the social fabric. Go outside and find your nearest bum, living on the street. Get to know them and how they g…

In my darker moments I tend to agree with you here, but what I then realize is that it's monumentally difficult to get a land of 330m people to agree, and when you've got a group of people that large, the worst groups will just be bigger and meaner. My worry for you is that this reaction is a visceral one, fundamentally rooted in a dislike for America's diversity. It's a messy process, getting everyone to work togeth…

Germany and the US have very similar levels of foreign-born populations.[1] Austria has a much larger muslim minority as a share of the population than the US, and the same goes for Germany.[2] While US politics are certainly more divisive, it is hard for me to see how it is more diverse.[3]

Fully absent from your consideration is the fact that both Austria and Germany are part of the EU, a project in diversity maybe only outdone by the indian federal state.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_G...

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#284

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #108

boffinAudio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia is a different dimension altogether - you have a lot of the trappings of Western (US/European) culture, but none of the advantages of access to a free market. Personally, I can't stand Australian culture, nor American either these days - which isn't to say I'm launching into an adopted German/Austrian stance, just that .. being away from these lands for a decade at least in each case, I started to see the s…

I'm not sure if this is intentional but in all your comments you just come across as a hateful, angry person.

I'm guessing here, but you're probably American taking offense to someone being frank and direct in their communications. It's a cultural difference.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#285

Post by oaiey » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

rory wrote: post #231

CitrusFruits wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "Children will be drinking tap water starting at kindergarten and and stay like this their whole life."? Is there some sort of subtext here? In general I think it's great if you can safely drink tap water, saves the hassle and waste of getting bottled water all the time.

I think it might be a euphemism, but I'm not positive.

No. It is literal. Tap water is generally healthy in Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#286

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #259

the_lonely_road wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida cont…

In Florida, six-year-old children live in tents: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/florida-affordable-h... I get it that Floridians don't want a nanny state, but this kind of thing is why the below-median lifestyle in the state looks like a shithole from a European POV. The fact that the 1% is so well-off makes the picture look even worse.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#287

Post by Hamuko » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #275

Hamuko wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be broke as a senior software engineer? Even if the wages are lower than in the US, they're probably still in the better half of the wage pyramid. (I'm a senior software engineer in Europe, doing alright) Did he have massive student debt or something?

> How can you be broke as a senior software engineer? Housing and taxes are both expensive.

They're not that expensive, and if a senior software engineer can't put a roof on top of themselves while paying taxes, how can anyone expect a school teacher or a nurse to do so?

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#288

Post by nvarsj » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

I moved from the US (Bay Area/LA/Chicago) to the UK (London).

Biggest sacrifice is my family is all US based, and the time zones really suck for staying in touch. The next thing would be the eye-watering compensation increases in the US in the last 5 years since I left. I'd be making significantly more income if I had stayed. That is something I still struggle with on a personal level.

What have I gained. I suppose a different perspective on the US, to some of the absurd Americanisms that I used to just accept: the crazy amount of patriotism and propaganda, the poverty, ghettos, widespread homelessness, the gun violence, the failing/overpriced medical system. The US is a really messed up country in many ways - it's sad given how wealthy it is and successful in other areas, and all the smart people, it shouldn't be like this.

The NHS is great, although it feels like it's gotten worse since I moved here. Still, everyone can get good quality medical care, it just takes time.

There aren't homeless people everywhere here. I can walk around the roughest parts of London, the worst that will happen is I might get mugged. In Chicago, there were gun shootings blocks away from where I lived with my small children. I went to Colorado over the holidays, and there had just recently been a mass shooting at the Boulder King Soopa which was closed. It feels so much safer here overall.

Europe is on my doorstep and I've spent some time traveling to quite a few different countries, and it's really enjoyable. COVID put a hamper on that for the last couple years, but the opportunities are there.

Pub food is really delicious in the UK. UK sausages are amazingly good. I miss steaks in the US though, although there are some pretty great places in London. Cider is awesome, and I can drink it even w/ my IBS issues unlike beer. Coffee in London is the best I've ever had.

Public transport is great and I can explore the city easily. I can walk out the door and go get groceries, or shop on the high street, or eat out. Not needing a car for every single thing is pretty great once you get used to it.

There's a large amount of diversity and I've met a lot of great and different people with unique perspectives that have given me new insights.

Squash is a great and fun sport and available to play pretty much anywhere without costing a lot.

It's not all roses though. Brexit. Tory austerity policy is bonkers. Quality of education has gone down a lot, I am struggling with this as my son goes through secondary. There is a bizarre class system perpetuated by widespread independent (private) education which gets subsidized via tax exempt status. NHS waiting lists are super long. Quality of services has gone down it seems - it is hard to find good community facilities and centers which aren't falling apart or overcrowded. Taxes feel absurdly high for what we get. Housing costs too much. US taxes can be a nightmare as an expat.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#289

Post by adreamingsoul » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

AspiringFinn wrote: post #219

I moved from the USA to Finland. Biggest sacrifice I had to make was downsizing my residence. I have a small flat in Helsinki instead of a large US home. Homes are generally much smaller here, though with more rooms for the square footage than they do in the USA. I have gained so much. I live in a place where it is safe for my children to wander the city alone. I live in a place where I never get harassed by homeless…

I’m happy for you. For the majority of my life I had a dream to live in Finland (home of my ancestors) but the closest I got was Norway. I recognise a lot of similarity with what you have experienced in Finland to what I have experienced here in Norway with my family.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#290

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

CitrusFruits wrote: post #184

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #115

How come nobody mentions France in the comments? :) I am French but have been working 12 years for a very large US company , spent a lot of time in the US, go friends there - an witnessed/helped several Americans moving to France. Salary and healthcare were already covered. The fact that over a 3 days drive across Europe you visit 4 or 5 countries with vastly different cultures is a big plus. And by vastly I mean rea…

What do you mean by "Children will be drinking tap water starting at kindergarten and and stay like this their whole life."? Is there some sort of subtext here? In general I think it's great if you can safely drink tap water, saves the hassle and waste of getting bottled water all the time.

I think it's meant in contrast to kids drinking sodas from an early age.