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Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

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161–170 of 474 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wait is really months. Also the quality of the NHS is pretty bad. The NHS being great is the usual state-backed propaganda you can hear in a lot of other European countries to justify spending all that tax money on healthcare. Just from my personal experience: They skipped some safety measures they were supposed to follow during a birth delivery, they dealt terribly with one of my newborns after birth, they recom…

> Also the quality of the NHS is pretty bad. The NHS being great is the usual state backed propaganda you can hear in a lot of other European countries. Not really. The NHS itself and the various NHS trusts have been continuously drained of funding over the past few decades. The NHS runs on a shoestring. If you want things to improve, Tory cuts need to be rolled back.

The only year in which the NHS budget was cut in real terms was 97 or 98. Otherwise it has increased in real terms since 1980. Since 99, the NHS budget almost doubled.

It is increasing right now, the current plan (2018-2024) increases the budget by 3.4% in real terms every year.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Eur…

> LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. LA isn’t even the worst in that regard (I’d take LA over DFW) I don’t know where you are from, but LA is actually representative of large swaths of the US, and highlights some of the best things about America (namely multiculturalism and diversity)

>LA is actually representative of large swaths of the US

No, not even close.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#163

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Eur…

I mean there aren't cities like Vienna in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is…

Florida is a shithole? You spend too much time on the internet. Florida man is a literal meme that came about because of laws that all state collected data should be publicly available causing the media to get most of its fun crime stories from the very large population there. You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement? Very large swaths of southern Florida cont…

>You realize that a large portion of the richest Americans chose to move there for their retirement?

Yes of course, making it a shithole for those who didn't.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#165

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Eur…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe. LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible. If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too. Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Eur…

The Ruhrgebiet is a shithole. But then again, so is Florida. As is North Dakota and most of Utah. Arizona is pretty nice, but I probably think that only because of my Australian skin. The USA is a huge shithole, and if you don't understand why anyone would think that, I have a bridge to sell you .. under which live 12 families, kids and all, who couldn't pay their medical bills after Mom/Grandpa died of cancer. It is…

He's not upset. He just wishes for a more mature level of discourse. Your inability to understand that makes you someone not really worth engaging with.

edit: Now that I think about it your mentality fits very well with someone from Vienna, you've integrated well.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#167
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re getting a bit too caught up with wether it’s possible to walk to the grocery store for most Americans. I think you can agree that in most places, if you are walking to get groceries, you are either living in a well to do area, or you are forced to because you can’t afford a car, and it isn’t a pleasant experience.

"Hard to walk to the grocery store where you live" isn't the same thing as "hard to live where you can walk to the grocery store". If you count entire cities as "well to do areas" then I suppose I agree.

The number of cities where that is the case are a distinct minority.

And no it isn’t the same thing, but that was what parent comment was communicating. If people assume you are poor because you aren’t driving then you live in a place where you can’t walk to get groceries, in a practical sense, because clearly for any normal person the trade offs are prohibitive.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#168
I'm British. Lived in the USA for six years: three in Manhattan, three in Seattle. Moved to the Netherlands in late 2020; currently living in Utrecht.

Downsides:

The most obvious sacrifice is financial: I took a substantial pay cut to come here, and, on top of that, I now pay more tax. The day-to-day cost of living is a bit less in Utrecht than in Seattle, but not (nearly) enough to compensate. That doesn't make much direct impact on my disposable income — I have more than enough to live on from month to month — but it does mean I save substantially less.

House prices are out of control here; buying a house that we like feels like an impossible dream.

It's also harder to meet people and make friends. Part of that is Covid-related, of course, but the language issue makes it hard to join groups, clubs or activities — although my neighbours can speak effectively perfect English when necessary, that's understandably not how they want to spend their down time. That's compounded because most people my age are well embedded in social networks already, so it's hard for a newcomer to make connections with them.

I miss the landscape of the Pacific Northwest. The Dutch flatlands don't really compete.

Upsides:

The level of visible poverty is much lower. I found the level of homelessness, begging, deprivation, in the places I lived in the USA to be genuinely distressing. That's much less of an issue here (not zero issue, but much less).

Similarly, the level of visible inequality is lower. Sure, there are rich people and poor people in the Netherlands, but the differences feel less stark. Even the fairly poor have a decent standard of living. This makes me feel much more comfortable. I should add: neither this point nor the one above it are intended to minimize the plight of people living in Europe who are really struggling.

There's a safety net. I was well paid in the USA; I had good health insurance, etc. But there are enough “gofundme” stories of people who were in a similar position, and for health or whatever reasons it suddenly all goes wrong and they need help to deal with whatever life throws at them. Here, I'm pretty confident that if I or my family are suddenly unable to work, there's a safety net and we won't be out on the street. (In practice, if it had all gone wrong in the USA, I'd have escaped back to the UK, but you take my point.)

In general, infrastructure feels more solid. The road surfaces are better (seriously, American roads are terrible). Trains well-kept and reliable. Public spaces are clean and well maintained. Banking systems feel like they are decades more modern.

A good standard of education is fairly ubiquitously available to everybody, without costing a fortune. Although I save less, I don't have to worry about how I'm going to afford to put my kids through college.

Evens:

I biked everywhere in Manhattan, in Seattle, and now in Utrecht. I have never owned a car. I guess I failed at my American integration!

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#169
post #6

I can't answer all these questions, but I'm doing this right now. Moving from Denver, CO -> Berlin, Germany. I start in May. I'm taking about a 50% pay cut on paper (for a Senior Software Engineer position), although what's interesting is Berlin has a lower cost of living, and in particular rental prices are actually reasonable. My plan is for this to be a ~5 year thing, just because it would be hard to leave my fami…

> I'm taking about a 50% pay cut on paper (for a Senior Software Engineer position) A friend of mine moved from Seattle to Munich for work as an SSE, and his experience with respect to the pay cut matches yours. He was expecting that, but did not factor in the increase in taxes on top of that. He said he was broke and living off savings for the first time in his adult life, while working 40 hours a week for a major s…

How can you be broke as a senior software engineer? Even if the wages are lower than in the US, they're probably still in the better half of the wage pyramid.

(I'm a senior software engineer in Europe, doing alright)

Did he have massive student debt or something?

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#170
post #72

I moved to Europe from the Midwest near the beginning of my career (20 years ago). It's very difficult to compare things like housing, social life and salary without knowing where you're coming from and where you're considering going. Countries in Europe have GDPs per capita ranging from under $5,000/year to over $100,000/year. Really one of the few things you can say context-free is: you'll have more vacation in vir…

> Really one of the few things you can say context-free is: you'll have more vacation in virtually any European country.

In tech, at least, this probably is no longer true. In my experience most of the bigger companies have been moving to unlimited vacation. I'm pretty sure that someone in upper management did the math and concluded that employees granted unlimited vacation actually end up taking fewer days than if they are metered.

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