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The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

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Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's up with all the language games lately? "Defund the police". No no, we don't actually mean defund the police... "Anti work". No no, we don't actually mean we're anti work...

[flagged]

In both cases what you mean is not the default reading. Defund means to remove funds, and you meaning something else is not 'exactly that'.

Anti means you are against something, so the natural reading is that you don't want that thing (work) to be a thing anymore, not the more convoluted meaning you say is 'exactly that' even though nobody unfamiliar can possibly guess at it from just the word anti.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#82
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages are going to have to go up. House prices aren't going to come down, rent isn't going to come down, used car prices may come down but not to levels in the before times and only if new car prices don't skyrocket, food won't come down. It's getting very expensive to meet the ends. Wages will have to go up. When ppl think things aren't fair, they revolt.

So.. inflation?

Sure, if you can afford to absorb the extra costs, then that is certainly a simple way to think about it. If you can't, it has the potential to be catastrophic. Wages being stagnant for so long, there are more ppl edging towards the latter.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#83

> spectacles like the immense popularity of the "Anti-Work" thread on Reddit — have gone as far as to suggest this record-breaking trend is a movement of young, able-bodied Americans rejecting work altogether. I don't think this is the point of "anti work". The point is (to me) that people should be treated equitably at work and that work shouldn't be the center of our lives

What's up with all the language games lately? "Defund the police". No no, we don't actually mean defund the police... "Anti work". No no, we don't actually mean we're anti work...

The simple answer is there are no games, there are just liberals taking slogans from more radical places and toning them down or flipflopping to be more palatable. It's more an effect of the general confusions of the internet, and people not being sure what they want, but knowing that things are wrong.

The crowd around here, of course, always constantly jumps on this as if it is all one big inconsistent argument from a specific group. Selectively forgetting in these moments what the internet is like in general. It's funny, just look at the peer replies here, people are so excited to point out the patent inconsistency, the naive radicals who don't know what they want; obviously because people who would even have something close to those thoughts must be confused and irrational.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure a certain percentage will 10-15% of the workers quitting is enough! If 2 of my 13 employees quit at the same time, I will have to start working 65-80 hours a week.

Nowhere near 10-15% of people are quitting to stay home.

They are quitting to change jobs…

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#85
post #11

I rarely see any mention of how just so many people dying + becoming disabled impacts the job market. Historically big drops in available labor lead to improved labor negotiation (e.g. working conditions, wages). The "great resignation" is only one facet.

COVID probably hasn't had a major impact in that respect there are a total of 859,354 deaths in the entire country which is only 0.2% of the population, but of the working population it is even smaller than that as almost half of that is in individuals who are 75 or older and unlikely to be participating in the workforce dropping us to less than 0.14% of people being effected, or slightly more than 1 in 1000 people.…

That's incredibly helpful, thanks! I assumed the deaths were skewed somewhat to elderly but not to such an extreme. I wonder how this impacts calculations of e.g. social security payments and wealth transfers in the US.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#86
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are doing that right here (narrative with little data). Even the NPR article says "the labor force participation rate remains significantly smaller than before the pandemic and it's still hard for employers to fill open jobs". There is data to back this up and it's not just a narrative.

> There is data to back this up and it's not just a narrative. The narrative is directionally correct. The issue is that the media (including NPR) has done everything they can think of to exaggerate it as much as possible. Once you look at the actual numbers it’s not the sea change we’ve been hearing about everywhere. The data is being omitted because the omission leaves more room for imaginations to run with the hea…

>Once you look at the actual numbers it’s not the sea change we’ve been hearing about everywhere.

Ehh, that's debatable and much harder to prove either way.

For years before the pandemic there have been complaints from every industry about companies trimming down teams/workforces to the smallest possible size. People were doing the jobs of 2 or 3 people were a common issue that was brought up, if anyone was sick the employer demanded you come to work anyway. And that's when things were good. Now add a large portion of employees being sick at any one time and suddenly the work machine is being driven over capacity and much like an overloaded TCP/IP network, congestion collapse occurs. Even a small change in the most productive employees moving jobs could lead to large disruptions inside of a business.

Anecdotally this is something I witnessed. We had pretty low rates of employee attrition during the pandemic, but the employees that did leave were some of the most influential.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#87
post #2

"The Great Resignation" feels a bit like a phrase that folks have grasped on to and just attach the narrative they want to believe to it. Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. The idea that amid a pandemic and such that there are a variety of reasons seems backed up by the data, although I admit that's what I'm inclined to believe / seen.

> Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. Actual resignations are up slightly, but the idea that employees are quitting in droves is exaggerated. It’s higher than normal turnover, but the stories are written in ways to suggest that companies everywhere are gutted by employees leaving in bulk. I feel like “great resignation” was deliberately chosen to mislead people into thinkin…

[deleted]

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#88

> spectacles like the immense popularity of the "Anti-Work" thread on Reddit — have gone as far as to suggest this record-breaking trend is a movement of young, able-bodied Americans rejecting work altogether. I don't think this is the point of "anti work". The point is (to me) that people should be treated equitably at work and that work shouldn't be the center of our lives

From the posts I have read in /r/antiwork I would not like to employ any of the posters, I would not want to be a coworker to any of them either. I'm not convinced that the world needs to have everyone working, but if it comes down to a shortage of food, healthcare or consumable goods, the workers should be fed before the slackers.

>but if it comes down to a shortage of food, healthcare or consumable goods, the workers should be fed before the slackers.

Some of the people in /r/antiwork see these shortages as artificial or caused by a society that funnels labor toward profit instead of toward need, but to your other point, there are a lot of people on that reddit who are incredibly naive or just have a chip on their shoulder.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#89
post #2

"The Great Resignation" feels a bit like a phrase that folks have grasped on to and just attach the narrative they want to believe to it. Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. The idea that amid a pandemic and such that there are a variety of reasons seems backed up by the data, although I admit that's what I'm inclined to believe / seen.

> Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. Actual resignations are up slightly, but the idea that employees are quitting in droves is exaggerated. It’s higher than normal turnover, but the stories are written in ways to suggest that companies everywhere are gutted by employees leaving in bulk. I feel like “great resignation” was deliberately chosen to mislead people into thinkin…

Behaviors often vary at different scales. At a macroscopic level you're correct, this movement is exaggerated based on the coverage to overall economic significance (most of its all inflation driven), but at, let's say, a mesoscopic scale, there are businesses feeling these very real effects. It's in specific industries and certain types of employers, I suspect largely abusive employers, where turnover is increasing significantly. And in such environments, these trends are happening the way the media is portraying it. I've seen it and I too have friends with anecdata who have experienced it. This is abnormal as prior to the pandemic such turnover and rejection was fairly rare at a given business, it usually happened on the business's terms during restructuring, rarely on the employee side outside of say unionized strikes.

Taking this view that nothing is going on at a macroscopic scale is like standing in the Himalayas and shouting "but the Earth is really smooth, almost spherical." While at a macroscopic scale you'd be very correct (technically oblate spheriod), the mountains and valleys localized around you are very real challenges you need to navigate. That's important if you never travel outside the Himilayas, maybe not if you're circumnavigating the Earth (just, avoid it, you know). Not everywhere is Kansas and if you ignore very real localized phenomena that may be unavoidable, you're going to have problems navigating if your specific scale can't compensate for it.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There is a fairly good point here that when people argue that politician X is defunding the military or defunding schools, nobody assumes that they mean that they've ended public education or disbarred the military. We have a general social understanding of the word "defund" that also encapsulates "moving money/responsibilities from one department to another one." So it feels a little bit like a double standard to in…

Because people that work in the industry want to exaggerate the issue to try to get more funding and support.
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