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Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

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31–40 of 474 posts

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#31

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

Just curious: how long since you moved out of USA? How long it took to learn German well enough (in your personal opinion) to integrate well?

20 years - I left just after 9/11, during which period I witnessed the USA collectively shitting itself, and during which I decided to play no part in the USA's continued economic survival. Far better to have moved to Germany and get things happening in a country not inclined to blood-lust because it was finally attacked the way it had been attacking countries, with impunity, for decades prior. The German culture's proclivity for peace-making, and especially on the subject of forgiveness, far outweighs any of the gung-ho American enthusiasms that might be fashionable ..

Honestly, it took me 5 years to feel comfortable speaking fluent German - mostly because Germans just refuse to correct German-speaking expats, instead choosing to switch to their English ..

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#32

I'm sure others will cover the shorter-term aspects. I'll add that, particularly if you're not young or have a family, it wouldn't hurt to consider the fact that you will probably have a great time for the first N years, but there might be a slump when you realize that you will probably never really integrate and will have a smaller social circle because of it, in a place where people seem to have smaller casual grou…

What do you mean by integrate? As in, it's harder to find friends? Or that there's cultural issues barring you from being as close friends as you would someone from the U.S.?

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#33

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#34
Not from the US but from another country in the Americas. Here is a non-exhaustive list of things to take into consideration:

- Social life. Yes, modern technology makes it easier than ever to keep touch with friends from across the globe, but you need to expect to lose some relationships there. Not all friendships can survive the distance. The time zone difference also makes it annoying to keep in touch (e.g. you will be finishing a day's work and wanting to get in touch with friends, but their day has just started).

- Transportation. Now I don't know how you feel about cars but this was a huge win for me. I have driving and public transportation in Europe is usually very good. My driver's license has actually expired a few years back and I do not miss it. - Compensation. You simply won't find jobs that pay as much as the ones you can find in Silicon Valley (or perhaps in the major American cities). This won't necessarily be all that base. See my next point;

- Reasonably good public services in general. This will of course vary between countries, but you can expect to find reasonably good public services all around Europe. Healthcare is included in this but it can sometimes be a bit cumbersome to get an appointment with the right kind of doctor (you need to first go through a general practitioner who will refer you to a speciality). This can be mitigated however. See next point;

- Cheaper healthcare in general. Even if you opt for the convenience of private healthcare, you can expect to find it waaaay cheaper than in the US. Your job with also offer you health insurance which will cover most of your expenses making having access to private healthcare really affordable.

- Job safety. I guess this varies with the state you live in, but in Europe you are likely to find that the labour laws work more in your favour than in the US. This can paradoxically get annoying for you in a few very particular situations, but all in all, it's nice to feel safe this way.

- Homesickness is real and there's not much you can do about it. You will long for your home, for that old group of friends you used to hang out with, for that spot you used to go when you needed some time for yourself. Also, seeing the people you left behind moving on with their lives will feel weird.

- You will gain a lot of safety. Now I have no idea where in the US you are, but I bet that a somewhat good neighbourhood in Europe will be safer. I came from a particularly dangerous place (doubt you will find a place as dangerous in the US) so this was a huge win for me.

- You will come to appreciate a different kind of life than what you are used to. I don't know how to explain this, but the way of life in Europe is very different from the one in the Americas. Life goals and such are all very different. This will of course vary from country to country.

- You will come to appreciate a lot of things about the US that you didn't appreciate before. I guess this is just a natural consequence of gaining perspective. Nowhere is perfect and nowhere is fully bad.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#35
post #15

I'm just outside London, moved here to marry my English wife from Vegas. I work part time doing basic IT for a US law firm due to health issues after heart surgery, and Yankee dollars are worth jack shit here - I'm not making serious tech industry money, but over here it's barely enough to survive on. Housing is always smaller than you'd get in (at least the western) US for the same price, and I'd bet that's true pre…

> brink of civil war

I think that might be overstated.

> NHS is absolutely amazing

I've read and heard that for a non-emergency appointments, the wait could sometimes be months. Is that also overstated?

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#36

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

I grew up in an American colony; the Canal Zone. We had our own schools and were taught U.S. curriculum and about the U.S. I was a rabid nationalist. I had never lived in the U.S. until I went to college but had visited it. Ever since coming to the U.S. I slowly became more and more liberal and less and less nationalistic. The myths I was taught about the U.S. did not withstand my experience of the country.

Everything is so spread out and car centric. Our towns and cities are concrete jungles with massive amounts of parking lots that are rarely used. It’s very hard to live where you can walk to a grocery store. We are a nation of building dwellers using giant vehicles to take us from one building to another one. And the food; massive amounts of added sugar and fruit that is tasteless. Addicted to crappy fast food, lonely, and under exercised. Major changes are desperately needed.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#37

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

Hearing that you only lived in LA makes your take on the US very partial and flawed.

LA has a reputation even within the US of being what you describe as a "shithole."

I lived in Germany for years, the former east, and it would be unfair to call Germany a "shithole" based on my own experience in the former Soviet bloc, which has struggled both pre and post reunification due to Communist rule.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#38

I'm sure others will cover the shorter-term aspects. I'll add that, particularly if you're not young or have a family, it wouldn't hurt to consider the fact that you will probably have a great time for the first N years, but there might be a slump when you realize that you will probably never really integrate and will have a smaller social circle because of it, in a place where people seem to have smaller casual grou…

I'm in Berlin and feel fully integrated here. Whether or not that's possible really depends on location, there's many in Europe where it absolutely is.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#39
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely true. And also, if money feels like it could be an issue, and you are coming from the US with a US network, it's still pretty easy to find contracting work with your US-based network at US rates. That's what we did once we quit our jobs and I was pretty much working 2 days/week.

Oh, that's another thing: while salaries in Europe might be sub-par by American standards, subcontractor values are exceptionally comparable to American standards . That is to say, if you can find subcontractor-style/freelance work in Europe, you can expect to make revenues on par with American standards. Its just the employment laws that make half your paycheck disappear every month. But, don't worry, when you need…

You usually lose your health insurance in Austria after about 30 weeks of unemployment... so not sure what you are talking about.

https://www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/geld-vo...

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#40
I did the opposite as a child, and moved from the Netherlands to the US when I was eleven. Even then I realized how massively dependent America is on cars, which was properly disappointing for a kid who previously had a ton of personal freedom on his bike. This carried into adulthood when a study abroad experience showed me how massively disappointing public transport is in the US.

I strongly recommend watching the Not Just Cars youtube channel to understand the issues of US travel infrastructure.

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