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Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

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Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#21

Post by boffinAudio »

jypepin wrote: post #13
boffinAudio wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing expats definitely have to do is readjust their expectations about cost of living and relative expenses. While the payroll for your average European tech guy is nowhere near the stellar heights of the SV bro's, the buying power in Europe is at a level higher than you might expect. Whereas, for a single night out in SoCal I'd spend $100 - $150, dinner movie and drinks - here in Vienna I'd get through just as…

This is completely true. And also, if money feels like it could be an issue, and you are coming from the US with a US network, it's still pretty easy to find contracting work with your US-based network at US rates. That's what we did once we quit our jobs and I was pretty much working 2 days/week.

Oh, that's another thing: while salaries in Europe might be sub-par by American standards, subcontractor values are exceptionally comparable to American standards. That is to say, if you can find subcontractor-style/freelance work in Europe, you can expect to make revenues on par with American standards.

Its just the employment laws that make half your paycheck disappear every month. But, don't worry, when you need healthcare you won't be going anywhere near a bankruptcy procedure. I broke my arm a few years back and needed reconstructive surgery that would have cost me multiple $100,000+'s in the USA - whereas here in Austria, even unemployed, I was covered and did not have to pay a dime.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#22

Post by jurmous »

jypepin wrote: post #5

Hey! I'm back in the US but my wife and I moved from SF to Amsterdam for 3 years. We moved with our tech job there and ended up eventually quitting and doing our own company. - Where do you live? SF -> Amsterdam - What's the biggest sacrifice you had to make (i.e. pay, housing, friends, etc.) I was shocked when my HR department told me our salaries would pretty much be cut in half. I was also furious because I was go…

> No amazon and it sucks not to have it when you are used to buying everything and getting it the next day.

Bol.com is the Dutch Amazon with quick delivery. And Amazon.nl launched in March 2020 but is worse for most needs here.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#23

Post by FPGAhacker »

boffinAudio wrote: post #4

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

I don’t know how much of the US you experienced, but LA is hardly representative of the country.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#24

Post by JKCalhoun »

jfk13 wrote: post #7
thegypsyking wrote: post #3

I did the opposite and found the us much better. Pay and opportunities are infinitely better, people are friendlier, having a car is much easier and more convenient.

> Pay and opportunities are infinitely better ...if you're lucky enough to be among the privileged.

True. But if we're talking software engineering, everyone posting here is probably "privileged" in that regard.

Let me just take this moment to say, holy shit what a fascinating time we all live in and what a happy accident it was that I stumbled into software engineering in this particular era.

I'm not aware of a recent time in history when you could get what amounts to a doctor's salary without the lengthy schooling, rigorous training, certification.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#25

Post by brobdingnagians »

- UK (but I also lived in Spain & Italy for a bit)

- Largest sacrifice is not visiting family as often

- Came here because my wife is English

The UK is close enough to the US that things seem almost normal, but lots of subtly different things. The biggest thing is the culture, the English tend to be quieter, more reserved, and that manifests in a lot of different ways.

I speak Spanish, but not Italian. Italy was very difficult to find housing and communicate, Spain was a bit easier, but Spanish culture is very different than US culture and had some very surprising things. It would be good to be familiar with any culture you dive into.

Northern Europe tends to have a larger percentage of English speakers, so basic day to day things are easier to do (like finding housing).

The most difficult thing is probably a bit of "outsider" feeling and the language barrier in other countries, but there are lots of Americans in the UK to help ease that, and UK culture is easier to get used to than some of the others, especially if you have an English partner

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#26

Post by mrsuprawsm »

jypepin wrote: post #5

Hey! I'm back in the US but my wife and I moved from SF to Amsterdam for 3 years. We moved with our tech job there and ended up eventually quitting and doing our own company. - Where do you live? SF -> Amsterdam - What's the biggest sacrifice you had to make (i.e. pay, housing, friends, etc.) I was shocked when my HR department told me our salaries would pretty much be cut in half. I was also furious because I was go…

>No amazon and it sucks not to have it when you are used to buying everything and getting it the next day.

In NL there are are multiple similar companies (Coolblue, Bol.com) which offer next day delivery on everything and even same day delivery in the major cities (i.e. including Amsterdam) on some things.

Amazon.nl has also been here for a couple of years (again with same day delivery), and you have been able to order from Amazon.de (again, with same day delivery) for many years.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#27

Post by boffinAudio »

dukeyukey wrote: post #17
boffinAudio wrote: post #4

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

How does LA and Vienna compare to Australia?

Australia is a different dimension altogether - you have a lot of the trappings of Western (US/European) culture, but none of the advantages of access to a free market. Personally, I can't stand Australian culture, nor American either these days - which isn't to say I'm launching into an adopted German/Austrian stance, just that .. being away from these lands for a decade at least in each case, I started to see the shine wear off long, long ago.

Quality of life is pretty high in Australia, though, I have to admit. Nothing quite like hitting the beach after work - which I did a few times in LA, only to get a horrendous infection. But, still, I am lucky enough to choose my path and I am for sure never going back to Australia to live. Or, LA/USA.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#28

Post by mcv »

jypepin wrote: post #5

Hey! I'm back in the US but my wife and I moved from SF to Amsterdam for 3 years. We moved with our tech job there and ended up eventually quitting and doing our own company. - Where do you live? SF -> Amsterdam - What's the biggest sacrifice you had to make (i.e. pay, housing, friends, etc.) I was shocked when my HR department told me our salaries would pretty much be cut in half. I was also furious because I was go…

> No amazon and it sucks not to have it when you are used to buying everything and getting it the next day.

Of course there's Amazon in NL. But more importantly, there's also bol.com and Cool Blue, which are better. Or at least less shitty.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#29

Post by pwagland »

thegypsyking wrote: post #3

I did the opposite and found the us much better. Pay and opportunities are infinitely better, people are friendlier, having a car is much easier and more convenient.

The first points are salient. The last point is interesting, since a car is generally much more required in the US, yes it is easier and more convenient to have a car in the US, as well as a buttload cheaper, but life without a car is (generally) a lot less easy or convenient.

Re: Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

#30

Post by mistahenry »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #19
boffinAudio wrote: post #4

I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life. WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria. WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of…

Just curious: how long since you moved out of USA? How long it took to learn German well enough (in your personal opinion) to integrate well?

I moved to Germany as well and self taught German to a high B2 level in the 15 months before moving. That was enough where I was able to be conversationally fluent within 3 months of arrival

When I self taught, I primarily used Assimil and Pimsleur daily for the first six months. After completing those programs, I continued with the daily study (that’s the most important part!) and used Easy German the YouTube channel, watched a bunch of German shows, and worked on speaking just by narrating / describing random things and looking up words as needed.

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