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Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

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Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#231

Post by sireat »

pm90 wrote: post #138
sireat wrote: post #120

Bolt is huge in Eastern Europe (taxis, food delivery). They are not exactly without controversy. Bolt announced and defended further expansion in Belarus amid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Belarusian_p... What is interesting that my Google searches fail to find the offending article from Bolt's founder. All I can find is Russian and Belarus sources and Usain Bolt. Linkedin does show Bolt has an expa…

FYI, this is a different Bolt. Bolt, US: https://www.bolt.com/ Bolt, EU: https://bolt.eu/

Thank You! Interesting there are two unicorn Bolts then.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#232

Post by nus07 »

dang wrote: post #100
nus07 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect there have been 2-3 HN posts in the last few months about YC and HN being biased towards Stripe. Surely it cannot be so much smoke without a fire.

That's bad logic in two ways. First, this is the internet. Smoke goes a lot further than that. Second, to the extent that the claims involve HN, (I'm being careful only to comment on facts I personally know about), they're definitely false [1]. So yes, for sure there can be that much fireless smoke. [1] I haven't had a chance to respond properly about those claims yet. Normally I'd have done it by now, but I'm on my…

Thank you . That was a fantastic and very detailed response. Obviously seeing a few of those posts made me think there was something to those insinuations so its good to get those clarified. Ball is now on Bolt founder's court to back up his claims otherwise its libel.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#233

Post by aerosmile »

gorgoiler wrote: post #163
aerosmile wrote: post #51

Public fights can occasionally be net positive for one of the participants, but your arguments will be publicly scrutinized and they better be watertight. If the logic you presented is your best work, then I can easily see why you've experienced some trouble in getting people to support you. Let's start with the very first argument you presented: getting rejected by YC is a clear proof of collusion. Getting rejected…

Ahem, on triumphalism , I would recommend re-reading the very start of the thread. > Today we’re a successful company with 600 employees, billions in GMV, and growing rapidly

I agree that was a strong opening, and if turns out that this whole ordeal was a net positive event for Bolt, then it will have been entirely due to that one sentence. I imagine quite a few people on HN had never heard of Bolt before, and that's now changed for about 100k people at least (likely many more if you take other platforms into account).

Even so, I still think the closing could have been better. His last words are an accusation, and he portrays a landscape where it's hard for Stripe competitors to win. There actually was an opportunity to say something like: "And yet, if there's anything I've learned, it's that in the end a great product can overcome all adversity. That's what enabled us to become the first unicorn startup in the world to have introduced a 4-day work week for all of our 600 employees."

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#234

Post by NicoJuicy »

greatjack613 wrote: post #216
dang wrote: post #184

His claims about HN are false. Short version: his post was 2+ hours later than Stripe's, not an hour earlier, and fell in rank because users flagged it, not because moderators did anything (which I suppose is what his mafia/mob language was intended to imply). The longer version is going to involve a tedious barrage of links, but I want this to be something that people can check for themselves if they care to. Quotin…

Honestly the fact you felt the need to try to answer up the claims by throwing dirt at one single point that they made makes it clearer to me then ever that the claims are true. Everyone knows that the best pr strategy when your being attacked by someone who's claims appear true to anyone who has their eyes open is to keep quiet and let it pass, instead you blew this up. I now believe them. Congratulations.

There's a fundamental flaw in that logic from the tweet.

YC can earn a lot more by funding competition and has a lot to lose from the community from mistreating competition or favoriting others.

I also haven't seen any evidence suggesting any.

At a scale of funding hundreds of companies/year, nothing will go perfect all the time either, i suppose.

Fyi: long time HN reader, Belgium, not affiliated and received a ( correct ) ban from dang one time ;)

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#235

Post by conductr »

caaqil wrote: post #118
sailingparrot wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can someone confirm? Hover over the dates in the links. Stripe's post [1]: 17:41 UTC Bolt's [2]: 20:08 UTC Considering this is the only thing he claimed to have "proof" on, and it turns out not only to be false but to be the actual opposite, this is really damning for the rest of his claims. If that was such a traumatizing event, how can one not think of checking the timestamp once in 4 years to at least know if yo…

> An ~hour later, this showed up Could it be about who hit the front page first, and not exact timestamps? (i.e., he meant the Stripe post hit the front page an hour after their post did?) That makes sense, since some posts quickly hit the front page and then disappear. Just as an alternative explanation.

It’s also seems to me that anything Stripe related gets a ton of upvotes. Probably not unusual due to their YC connection, HN presence, and generally being a long time darling of devs that frequent HN. It doesn’t mean it’s rigged, they’re just a competitor with a good tailwind from this site.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#236

Post by throwaway984393 »

dang wrote: post #184

His claims about HN are false. Short version: his post was 2+ hours later than Stripe's, not an hour earlier, and fell in rank because users flagged it, not because moderators did anything (which I suppose is what his mafia/mob language was intended to imply). The longer version is going to involve a tedious barrage of links, but I want this to be something that people can check for themselves if they care to. Quotin…

> and it fell in rank because users flagged it, not because moderators did anything

Moderators get involvedin flagged articles on their own initiative all the time. Inaction is a form of action.

> He's clearly insinuating that we use insider powers to favor stripe.com submissions with special treatment on HN. That's precisely what we don't do.

You've admitted on multiple occasions that you intentionally choose to do specific things depending on the content, its authors, and the users. I'm not sure special treatment is even a concept that applies; everything mods do or don't do is special treatment because it's all based on instinct and whim, not some unbiased algorithm (and algorithms have bias too)

> Stripe succeeded on HN because they were favored by the community for many years. They are one of a small number of startups who have reached what you could call 'community darling' status

And that status comes from being coached in how to become a community darling. And from YC loving on Stripe, which the "community" is naturally biased towards. If jgc takes a dump, it gets upvoted. So backing Stripe in any way buys them a part of the community.

Whatever you believe, at least recognize that you don't have to consciously choose to favor someone for it to influence your actions subconsciously. That's the entire idea behind bias in hiring and cultural stereotype. The effect is real and it effects everyone, even yourselves at HN. If you haven't observed it, you're not looking for it.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#237

Post by adenozine »

dang wrote: post #219
adenozine wrote: post #203

Seeing mods immediately show up, post "proof" that could be easily manipulated, decry the post rather than respond, imo it all lends credit to what this person is tweeting about. I've long considered HN a source of techno-entertainment and never a source of news or integrity of any kind. It's just fun to look at. It is certainly manipulated often, in obvious ways, that are directly beneficial to YC companies. I think…

> decry the post rather than respond Do you really think that https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30070287 is "decrying" rather than "responding"? and that archive.org (or hnrankings.info, for that matter, which we have no connection to) "could be easily manipulated"?

Yes. There's literally billions of dollars at stake. Obviously, it'd be simple and profitable to orchestrate.

I'd be ashamed to reveal such naivete, friend.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#238

Post by skinkestek »

skinkestek wrote: post #215
dang wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we've worked a lot on detecting such manipulation. I looked into whether it was employees doing the flagging, but I didn't include that in the GP because I can't tell for sure who was or wasn't an employee. What I did find is that of the flaggers, most haven't ever voted for a stripe.com submission (before or since). There were two flaggers who have voted for quite a few stripe.com submissions, but not enough to…

I'd almost suggest reducing the power of flagging on posts even more, but I won't for two reasons: - This is your job and from everything I see you already put a whole lot of thought into it and I don't think I can outsmart you here. - IMO things have become better the last decade so it seems to me some adjustments (either technical or in the user base) have already happened. [1] That said, maybe we as a community co…

Ok, one perfect (I think) example that this still isn't perfect:

If I hadn't checked /active today I would have missed the story about Google classifying 1 and 0 as copyrighted.

Is there a reason why flagging that story shouldn't count as abusing flags?

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#239

Post by sombremesa »

dang wrote: post #179
nextaccountic wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You started with the weakest argument, that was based all hearsay and had no smoking gun. It was first only because the Twitter thread told the story in chronological order. And then.. you stopped there? For me the strongest argument is that hours after they reached #1 on HN, Stripe posted, got #1 themselves, then Bolt's own post somehow disappeared, suggesting foul play. Twice, in two separate occasions, this is all…

All of what he said about those HN posts is false. I'm going to post something soon with all the details. It just takes a long time to put together with all the correct links. Edit: finally - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30070287

Thanks for addressing this. I think your approach of radical transparency goes a long way to quell paranoia around how HN works.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#240

Post by CTmystery »

Kye wrote: post #229
dang wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but if someone makes statements about HN or YC that I know to be false, I believe it's my job to correct them—especially since we can't treat this kind of post in the way we normally moderate HN ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... ). What do you think I should do instead?

I can see someone who isn't convinced you're a fair operator taking the volume and detail of response as defensiveness, and that can look suspicious in a context like this. They aren't right , but I can understand the perspective.

> They aren't right, but I can understand the perspective.

How? I'm curious. If someone makes accusations that you know to be false, wouldn't your best defense be a comprehensive refutation?

What alternative do you see that would be more compelling?

I, for one, really appreciate this level of detail, because the most common alternative is to attack back mercilessly without evidence. This tactic being commonly employed by politicians the world over.

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