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An Experience with Modafinil

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Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#241
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has done a lot of IV cocaine and coffee I find this hard to believe. IV cocaine is one of the most euphoric highs in the world

Serious question. How do you deal with life when you aren’t high on IV coke? That state sounds so good I’d absolutely get addicted first thing.

Never done anything IV, but I do plenty of drugs (cocaine included) during basically every weekend, and have been doing so for the last ~30 years more or less.

Sure, some people do fall down into the trap of doing something too much, this is true for lots of things, including video games (which I've been more addicted to than drugs at some points in my life). But if you have a kind of normal life during the week that you like too much to lose, then it's not that hard to keep your drug usage to where it's accepted, for your sake and others.

I do love cocaine, but seeing what happen to others when consuming things too much, is a great tool to avoid liking it too much so it takes over your life.

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#242
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious - do you have something to back that up? Caffeine is pretty toxic ( I think the LD50 is something like 200 mg/KG of body weight. 20 grams would kill most people) and I don't find it surprising that an IV mix would have pretty serious effects.

The question is whether the two are somehow indistinguishable (to 80% of people, at least). IV bleach would also have pretty serious effects, but likely no one would confuse it for cocaine. The onus is on inter_netuser to provide evidence for the claim, not for pennaMann to refute it. I would imagine that literally no study exists comparing the effects of intravenous caffeine and cocaine, because who would possibly f…

Here is one similar study (I don't think is the right one though):

> Intravenous nicotine and caffeine: subjective and physiological effects in cocaine abusers

> The subjective and physiological effects of intravenously administered caffeine and nicotine were compared in nine subjects with histories of using caffeine, tobacco, and cocaine.

> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11160635/

Since this study exists, why is it so far off the other study exists? I don't know why it got funded, or to what end, but I'm sure happy it did. We need to study drugs more, not less.

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#243
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caffeine would be illegal to possess, if it were invented yesterday. 80% of people couldn't distinguish I.V. cocaine from I.V. caffeine in some study I am unable to locate at the moment, which I think involved Nora Volkow from NIH, either as PI or collaborator.

You remember the topic and the name of the PI but still can’t find this study? I am relatively certain that’s because it does not exist. The idea that caffeine is comparable to cocaine is pretty nuts. People murder to get cocaine. When’s the last time anyone murdered for Starbucks? I can totally believe that if you give someone who’s never done drugs a high dose of caffeine and tell them it’s cocaine, they might beli…

I've heard this argument in response to sugar.

Sugar can't be as addictive as heroin! People give blowjobs to get more heroin, no one gives a blowjob for a chocolate bar.

But that has nothing to do with addictiveness.

I don't need to murder someone for coffee or provide oral sex for a snickers, because I can easily get those things anywhere, anyway

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe school shouldn't be a competition with winners and losers.

Capitalist life is a competition with winners and losers. The losers are basically debt-slaves, and the winners are modern royalty.

ALL LIFE is competition regardless of whether it's capitalistic or not. People need it or they're miserable. Competition is not a bad thing.

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another 2 data points: My brother has narcolepsy, and finds modafinil much better than amphetamines. He says he has zero side effects with modafinil, and it makes him much less jittery than amphetamines. I have CFS, and sometimes need a stimulant if I must stay awake. I've tried amphetamines, but they make me really jittery and a bit anxious and snappy - I feel "tweaked", and it's not pleasant. By contrast, modafi…

Asking as a layman: What's the current understanding as to why modafinil and stimulants affect different people so differently?

I've found that the people who say Modafinil does nothing for them are people experienced with high powered stimulants who are expecting the same kick. This is mostly due to a misunderstanding of what the drug actually does.

Modafinil is a "wakefulness" drug. My favorite comparison is the feeling that you get when you have to pee in the middle of the night, and your body sends out that hormone to wake you up. Modfanil just kind of keeps that process going continuously. There is no "high" or any hyperactivity, just an extra layer of wakefulness.

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#247
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has done a lot of IV cocaine and coffee I find this hard to believe. IV cocaine is one of the most euphoric highs in the world

I've had cocaine a few times now and while everyone is saying it's euphoric, I keep saying it's the most normal I've ever felt. Not "euphoric", I've done other stuff that felt suuuuper good (in an actual euphoria sense) so I believe can compare. But normal . The cloud of thoughts gone, I am able to make myself do anything with one thought, I have energy, the aches are gone, the tinnitus is gone, I don't second guess,…

I've tried cocaine and it would make me feel like the "best" or perhaps much better version of me. Improved, but subjectively not overinflated self-confidence, sharper thoughts, better concentration, high energy and motivation, easier connection to people, without apparent intoxication or affected judgement.

I would agree with you that it makes me feel normal in the sense that's what it seems I should have been. The first time I tried it, I was like "so when I'm gonna feel the effect?" for a few seconds and then I realized I feel it and thought "That's the way it [life] 's meant to be played" :D

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#248
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have high confidence that you will never find this study, and that it doesn’t exist. I’m not accusing you of malice, but I think you must be misremembering something. But I’d love to be wrong. That would be a very interesting result.

I wasn't able to find a specific research study yet but here's this >Intravenous caffeine also resembles cocaine, she points out. https://archive.fo/bLX94

Thanks. I wonder how much it resembles cocaine, and at what dosage? This is at least a bit of support regardless.

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#249

I sort of fell down the rabbit hole of nootropics over the past year, of which Modafinil is a frequent recommendation. I don't know if I would really recommend nootropics to the average person (because there is risk involved, and many of these substances have had very little in the way of human studies), but it's been an interesting journey. It was kind of a pandemic hobby I picked up. My favorites are Aniracetam and…

Why are those your favorites?

Re: An Experience with Modafinil

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another 2 data points: My brother has narcolepsy, and finds modafinil much better than amphetamines. He says he has zero side effects with modafinil, and it makes him much less jittery than amphetamines. I have CFS, and sometimes need a stimulant if I must stay awake. I've tried amphetamines, but they make me really jittery and a bit anxious and snappy - I feel "tweaked", and it's not pleasant. By contrast, modafi…

Asking as a layman: What's the current understanding as to why modafinil and stimulants affect different people so differently?

Paradoxical and other unusual effects can occur with any kind of drug. Brain drugs in particular seem to be prone to a wide variance in the effect profile. I speculate that in part it is due to the heavy "reuse" of neurotransmitters for various purposes (neurotransmitters themselves being mostly reused modified amino acids). For example, dopamine modulates motor activity, reward pathways, attention, and error correction, and more. Serotonin modulates smooth muscle, appetite, uterine contraction, mood, visual salience, and more. Both can affect circadian rhythms. NMDA/AMPA and GABA are widely present and are the basic "wires" for excitatory/inhibitory signals, so drugs that affect these can do all kinds of zany things.

Neurotransmitters tend to be context-depended, so when you wash over the whole body with a small molecule which hits in a neurotransmitter-specific rather than context-specific way, you can get some funky effects. Most of the activity comes from the coincidence that there are some domains which correlate well with context: dopamine tends to affect anything resembling taxis, so physical movement, but also goal seeking, prediction, etc.

On top of all that, receptors and enzymes are physical things, and thus different folks have different affinities for transmitters and drugs. Pharmacokinetics - how your body distributes and clears drugs - is a huge variable.

Modafinil in particular is interesting because it's what drug chemists call a "greasy brick" - highly lipophilic, low solubility, to the point where ensuring consistent bioavailability is hard. Cephalon has put in a fair bit of work ensuring a certain particle size and excipient profile (emulsifiers to facilitate absorption) and personally I've experienced quite the difference between name brand and generic, the later often does jack-all for me.

td;dr - small molecules act on broad regions and impact many subsystems at once. Biology is complicated and crufty.

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