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Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

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Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#41

Post by MaxBarraclough »

300bps wrote: post #10

I remain shocked how we in the United States knowingly poisoned generations with leaded gasoline. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-... In searching for a substance that made gasoline less flammable (and hence stopped it from igniting outside of a cylinder, i.e. "knocking") we tried everything including adding melted butter! Lead along with a lot of other things worked well but we went with…

> Nobody seems to care about any of this.

Leaded petrol has been banned from sale at gas stations by every country in the world. [0] Unlike many important issues (such as overuse of antibiotics), it did receive the attention it deserved, at least eventually.

Work is ongoing in phasing out the use of leaded fuels in aviation. I think it's mostly a matter of testing existing aviation-approved engines to ensure they still perform as required on the various unleaded petrol blends they hope to transition to.

(As I understand it though, leaded paint is far more of a problem in terms of lead poisoning, than use of leaded petrol in aviation. I was still surprised the article made no mention of aviation.)

Aside: Someone at Cessna apparently thinks the transition away from leaded petrol will reduce carbon footprint. [1]

[0] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/final...

[1] https://www.flyer.co.uk/cessna-singles-ok-to-use-unleaded-fu...

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#42

Post by anonfornoreason »

geden wrote: post #26
globular-toast wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of properties in the UK still fed by lead water pipes. It's not something people talk about often, but it can be a problem and should be part of a good property survey.

Our Victorian property still has a (shared) lead supply pipe. I've been repeatedly told it's not an issue due to (presumed) calcification on the inside of the pipe. All the interior pipework is copper. Our water was tested years ago by the waterboard and came back way below the legal limit. Yet still... I'm suspicious. Can anyone point me at resources to help prove it's unsafe?

Look at what happened in flint Michigan. Lead pipes were calcified, but then the water bureau stopped adding an agent to reduce the natural ph of the river water. This caused the calcification to get stripped and for lead to start leaching into the water.

All it takes is a change in ph of your water supply to put you at risk.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#43

Post by OscarCunningham »

sjhuang26 wrote: post #33
pgt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpson’s Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox

I am wondering how this could be Simpson's Paradox.

You could force it into that mould by saying that the black kids were at least as smart as the white kids within the two groups (exposed to lead, not exposed to lead) but they were less smart when the two groups were combined.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#44

Post by C_Don7 »

citrin_ru wrote: post #22
C_Don7 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One cost-effective program is to ban the sale of lead paint in those countries without regulation (over half of countries globally). This article looks into this and other solutions: https://rethinkpriorities.org/publications/global-lead-expos... . Disclaimer: I co-direct a nonprofit that advocates for lead paint regulation (LEEP: https://leadelimination.org/ ).

Is indoor lead paint is still being sold anywhere in the world? Not banned doesn’t necessarily mean it is actively used.

true! But yes, it is. This map shows a summary of tests of paints on the market: https://ipen.org/projects/eliminating-lead-paint/lead-levels... (These are studies of oil-based paints, rather than water-based paints which don't usually contain lead, but in LEEP's experience from Malawi and Liberia lots of homes are painted with oil-based paints, inside and out)

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#45

Post by School-Cotton »

jabl wrote: post #23
jakub_g wrote: post #3

I knew about lead poisoning for a while, but mostly in US context. It's almost a non-topic in Europe since leaded gasoline was banned (I'm actually wondering why: no leaded paints in EU?) If these numbers are true, why this is not on first pages of all media all the time? Crazy. I wonder how reliable are these numbers.

> It's almost a non-topic in Europe since leaded gasoline was banned (I'm actually wondering why: no leaded paints in EU?) Leaded paints were certainly widely used as rustproofing primer on steel constructions, as a bedding compound, and as anti-fouling paint on boats. The traditional formula is a mixture of lead oxide and linseed oil, giving it a characteristic red color. Most of these uses are AFAIU nowadays banned…

That’s still much less serious than lead paint being used for the interiors of houses and apartments, which it was in the US until the 1970s. Was it in Europe?

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#46

Post by ajb »

geden wrote: post #26
globular-toast wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of properties in the UK still fed by lead water pipes. It's not something people talk about often, but it can be a problem and should be part of a good property survey.

Our Victorian property still has a (shared) lead supply pipe. I've been repeatedly told it's not an issue due to (presumed) calcification on the inside of the pipe. All the interior pipework is copper. Our water was tested years ago by the waterboard and came back way below the legal limit. Yet still... I'm suspicious. Can anyone point me at resources to help prove it's unsafe?

No, but Thames Water will replace the external lead pipe for free if you get your internal lead pipe replaced (as in, up to the demarcation point, which is probably the external stop valve). (More complicated if it's shared, of course). Other areas might be similar.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#47

Post by astura »

citrin_ru wrote: post #22
C_Don7 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One cost-effective program is to ban the sale of lead paint in those countries without regulation (over half of countries globally). This article looks into this and other solutions: https://rethinkpriorities.org/publications/global-lead-expos... . Disclaimer: I co-direct a nonprofit that advocates for lead paint regulation (LEEP: https://leadelimination.org/ ).

Is indoor lead paint is still being sold anywhere in the world? Not banned doesn’t necessarily mean it is actively used.

Since ever few years someone finds new childrens toys being manufactured with lead paint, it seems it's still being used once in a while at least.

https://uspirg.org/news/usp/recall-toys-still-found-lead-pai...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02697...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2016/04/26/the-ot...

https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-poiso...

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#48

Post by erwald »

refrigerator wrote: post #37

LEEP ( https://leadelimination.org ) is a very promising early stage non-profit working on this problem. They’re currently working in Malawi, Pakistan, Liberia + I think a couple of other countries, and expanding this year. If they're successful then their work will be more impactful (per dollar spent) than even the top GiveWell recommended charities.

i second this. i recommend, for anyone who is interested, reading their write-ups on the ea forum to get a good intro on the problem (and how they work):

- https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fd96FtLFACeAshqJP/...

- https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ErKzbKWnQMwvzRX4m/...

or my interview with lucia coulter, one of the co-founders:

- https://www.erichgrunewald.com/posts/interview-with-lucia-co...

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#49

Post by thinkcontext »

jakub_g wrote: post #3

I knew about lead poisoning for a while, but mostly in US context. It's almost a non-topic in Europe since leaded gasoline was banned (I'm actually wondering why: no leaded paints in EU?) If these numbers are true, why this is not on first pages of all media all the time? Crazy. I wonder how reliable are these numbers.

> I'm actually wondering why: no leaded paints in EU?

The dangers of lead paint have been known for over 100 years. France banned it in 1909. The League of Nations adopted a treaty on it in 1922. The US declined to join the treaty due to industry lobbying and didn't get around to banning it until 1978.

By declining to ban it the US cost itself $Ts when accounting for the developmental delays, lost IQ points, health problems, increased crime, lost productivity, remediation, etc. All so that one tiny corner of the chemical industry could have a little more profit.

Re: Around one-in-three children globally suffer from lead poisoning

#50

Post by james-redwood »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #42
geden wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Victorian property still has a (shared) lead supply pipe. I've been repeatedly told it's not an issue due to (presumed) calcification on the inside of the pipe. All the interior pipework is copper. Our water was tested years ago by the waterboard and came back way below the legal limit. Yet still... I'm suspicious. Can anyone point me at resources to help prove it's unsafe?

Look at what happened in flint Michigan. Lead pipes were calcified, but then the water bureau stopped adding an agent to reduce the natural ph of the river water. This caused the calcification to get stripped and for lead to start leaching into the water. All it takes is a change in ph of your water supply to put you at risk.

Beat me to it. Always replace your lead pipes.
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