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Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

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Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#51

Post by uejfiweun »

vanusa wrote: post #48
uejfiweun wrote: post #9

My understanding, as a software engineer with an interest in history: Russian history is essentially the story of Russia getting invaded time and time again. The Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, the list goes on and on and on. This, combined with borders that are difficult to defend (no mountain ranges or other natural barriers), has left the Russian psyche with a sense that their position is always precarious. It seems re…

How would Americans feel if we lost the cold war and Russia started trying to dominate Mexico and Canada? That's a lot of "what-if", and more than a lot of hyperbole there. In any case the U.S. isn't trying to dominate any of the former Soviet republics (or even former Warsaw Pact) countries in any meaningful sense. To be honest, I don't think Russia is in the wrong here, there is no real reason why Americans should…

Dude, I get that you're outraged about this, but you need to read a little more carefully.

They conclude that now is the last and best possible time to make an aggressive chess move against the West, and snatch up Ukraine before the West can.

They conclude

They

In case you didn't notice, the title of this post is "What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?" I literally attempted to respond to the question by saying what Russia's government wants. I'm an American guy, I'm not advocating any deaths or dismemberment as you say, I don't like war either. I'm simply saying that I understand the Russian position here, it's something you could get from reading a simple news article. Christ almighty.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#52

Post by vanusa »

uejfiweun wrote: post #51
vanusa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would Americans feel if we lost the cold war and Russia started trying to dominate Mexico and Canada? That's a lot of "what-if", and more than a lot of hyperbole there. In any case the U.S. isn't trying to dominate any of the former Soviet republics (or even former Warsaw Pact) countries in any meaningful sense. To be honest, I don't think Russia is in the wrong here, there is no real reason why Americans should…

Dude, I get that you're outraged about this, but you need to read a little more carefully. They conclude that now is the last and best possible time to make an aggressive chess move against the West, and snatch up Ukraine before the West can. They conclude They In case you didn't notice, the title of this post is "What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?" I literally attempted to respond to the question by saying what Rus…

You also said:

Russia thinks the West is very aggressive and unstable, and seeks to put Ukraine in its "sphere of influence" before it's too late. To be honest, I don't think Russia is in the wrong here, there is no real reason why Americans should even be involved with this country right up on the Russian border.

Which suggests a strong overlap between "their" position and your own.

So perhaps you'd like to clarify: Would Russia be "not in the wrong" if the actually invaded Ukraine? If that's what it ultimately takes to put Ukraine back in their sphere of influence?

Because it sure sounds like you would be more or less OK with such an invasion.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#53

Post by vanusa »

uejfiweun wrote: post #9

My understanding, as a software engineer with an interest in history: Russian history is essentially the story of Russia getting invaded time and time again. The Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, the list goes on and on and on. This, combined with borders that are difficult to defend (no mountain ranges or other natural barriers), has left the Russian psyche with a sense that their position is always precarious. It seems re…

There's one more thing I need to ask you:

Now, since the end of the Cold War, Russia has lost quite a lot of territory. This territory has all been snapped up by NATO, even though the Cold War was apparently over.

Which "Russian territory" are you referring to as being "snapped up by NATO"? It would have to be the Baltics (and perhaps Poland), right? As "Russian" territory?

Please do clarify.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#54

Post by [deleted] »

vanusa wrote: post #52
uejfiweun wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, I get that you're outraged about this, but you need to read a little more carefully. They conclude that now is the last and best possible time to make an aggressive chess move against the West, and snatch up Ukraine before the West can. They conclude They In case you didn't notice, the title of this post is "What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?" I literally attempted to respond to the question by saying what Rus…

You also said: Russia thinks the West is very aggressive and unstable, and seeks to put Ukraine in its "sphere of influence" before it's too late. To be honest, I don't think Russia is in the wrong here, there is no real reason why Americans should even be involved with this country right up on the Russian border. Which suggests a strong overlap between "their" position and your own. So perhaps you'd like to clarify:…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#55

Post by uejfiweun »

vanusa wrote: post #53
uejfiweun wrote: post #9

My understanding, as a software engineer with an interest in history: Russian history is essentially the story of Russia getting invaded time and time again. The Mongols, Napoleon, Hitler, the list goes on and on and on. This, combined with borders that are difficult to defend (no mountain ranges or other natural barriers), has left the Russian psyche with a sense that their position is always precarious. It seems re…

There's one more thing I need to ask you: Now, since the end of the Cold War, Russia has lost quite a lot of territory. This territory has all been snapped up by NATO, even though the Cold War was apparently over. Which "Russian territory" are you referring to as being "snapped up by NATO"? It would have to be the Baltics (and perhaps Poland), right? As "Russian" territory? Please do clarify.

I encourage you to use Google if you want to investigate my claims, and decide for yourself. Seems like your mind is already made up though.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#56

Post by vanusa »

uejfiweun wrote: post #55
vanusa wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one more thing I need to ask you: Now, since the end of the Cold War, Russia has lost quite a lot of territory. This territory has all been snapped up by NATO, even though the Cold War was apparently over. Which "Russian territory" are you referring to as being "snapped up by NATO"? It would have to be the Baltics (and perhaps Poland), right? As "Russian" territory? Please do clarify.

I encourage you to use Google if you want to investigate my claims, and decide for yourself. Seems like your mind is already made up though.

That's about the kind of (non-) answer I was expecting, actually.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#57

Post by seanw444 »

uejfiweun wrote: post #55
vanusa wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one more thing I need to ask you: Now, since the end of the Cold War, Russia has lost quite a lot of territory. This territory has all been snapped up by NATO, even though the Cold War was apparently over. Which "Russian territory" are you referring to as being "snapped up by NATO"? It would have to be the Baltics (and perhaps Poland), right? As "Russian" territory? Please do clarify.

I encourage you to use Google if you want to investigate my claims, and decide for yourself. Seems like your mind is already made up though.

Apparently people don't know about the former Soviet satellite states?

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#58

Post by uejfiweun »

vanusa wrote: post #56
uejfiweun wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to use Google if you want to investigate my claims, and decide for yourself. Seems like your mind is already made up though.

That's about the kind of (non-) answer I was expecting, actually.

No, I want to get the last word in! If you're implying that I'm some Russian internet troll, then all I can say is lol.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#59

Post by vanusa »

seanw444 wrote: post #57
uejfiweun wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to use Google if you want to investigate my claims, and decide for yourself. Seems like your mind is already made up though.

Apparently people don't know about the former Soviet satellite states?

We all know the history.

It's the implication that these are somehow naturally "Russian" territories (and that the world just needs to step back and accept this fact) that I find kind of -- strange.

Re: Ask HN: What's Russia's Endgame in Ukraine?

#60

Post by zqna »

JaggerJo wrote: post #32
uejfiweun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I get that Russia is not exactly kind to its neighbors, I have some Polish relatives who tell me all about that. But I'm just not really sure that the US has any business being in Russia's "near abroad" anymore. The US isn't 50% of the world GDP anymore, and is politically paralyzed - I don't think we have the appetite nor the finances for another gigantic war. Now this is controversial, so don't take this the…

I’m German and think we spend too little on our own military - to the point where it’s a joke. Europe needs to grow up and get able to defend itself.

And also maybe stop sponsoring and doing business with oppressed regimes too (yes China too)? I'm baffled that Nord Oost pipe project is at the latest stages right now, and W.Europe is considering putting the energy shackles without any extra thought. In a similar vain I'm puzzled that Netherlands are just doing business with Russia like normal after what happened with MA17. I perfectly understand that sitting cozy in their homes is what only matters to the most of people, but it's just sad that we are slaves of our own comfort and refuse to see a bigger picture.
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