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Meditation and the Unconscious

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

61–70 of 122 posts

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#61

I heard one of these "Guru's" once say in response to allegations of meditation as brainwashing: "If the brain is dirty, it needs to be washed."

The fact that this phrase sounds pithy and makes sense on a literal level tricks people into accepting the underlying message without critically analyzing the meaning of it. A classic Trojan horse of sorts.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#62

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?

Getting the practice just right seems to require personal connection with a master for whatever reason, but Sam Harris does a pretty good job of communicating the essence of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc. There are also lots of resources you can find online, though I can't say I recommend any one in particular. It is the kind of thing that requires a precise fit and the right conditions.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#63
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my understanding of "shadow work", which I believe was invented by Jung. Unpleasant thoughts and emotions are made conscious. In this way, the energy behind them is released and they no longer influence you subconsciously. This ties in nicely with the Buddhist Vipassana mindfulness meditation technique, although they are separate processes. In practical terms, I notice that something is bothering me, or that t…

Well put - lingering and unprocessed emotions don't go away, they fester. Shadow work often refers to dredging up feelings you have pushed down as "unacceptable" - anger being a common one. The idea being that shadow work helps you move towards total emotional development by embracing all of your emotional faculties.

Maybe not emotions per se but sides of yourself that you do not accept.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#64

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

This is a valid concern. Most likely meditation doesn't do anything at all. If you trust "Western Research", e.g. reading "Altered Traits", it either did nothing, or changes were noticeable after years. Concrete example - the author (or one of) practice meditation for 2 years to reduce his blood pressure and then ended up just taking some pills for it. So it does nothing (likely), it's good for you, or it's bad for y…

Yes. There are proven benefits of meditation. I speak from personal experience. That is my proof.

I used to do a lot of "one pointed" meditation. Then I did one pointed + vipassana. Now I do just vipassana.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put - lingering and unprocessed emotions don't go away, they fester. Shadow work often refers to dredging up feelings you have pushed down as "unacceptable" - anger being a common one. The idea being that shadow work helps you move towards total emotional development by embracing all of your emotional faculties.

Maybe not emotions per se but sides of yourself that you do not accept.

Yeah that's a more accurate way of putting it - things like accepting your repressed sexuality would also count as working towards being a more fully defined and self accepting person, for instance.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#66
Reality is like a dark room. Awareness is like a circle of light cast from a flashlight . Meditation manipulates that circle of light. Brightening and dimming it. Shrinking and enlarging it.

I know of 2 techniques. The Buddhists call them Samatha and Vipassana.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#67
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

To become conscious of all things a person must look for that which they are unconscious of rather than focusing purely on that which they are already conscious of. Most people prefer to see themselves as competent, but to be a master one must always see oneself as a beginner.

I see myself as incompetent because it's just too clear to deny.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#68
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Accepting" in the context of mindfulness doesn't imply being passive. That's a common misconception. It's often said that passivity is the "near enemy" of acceptance, meaning one is easily mistaken for the other.

This is an underrated comment. Mindfulness is a precursor to objectifying your thoughts, emotions, sensations, and perceptions -- rather than "subjectifying" them (in other words, you are not your thoughts, emotions, etc). It doesn't at ALL mean laying down for others to kick you and taking it. They're completely different things.

"Do you have the patience to await right action to arise?" was a sign in my first teachers house (which we would walk by during Kinhin). Meditation's effect on your life and happiness probably varies based on what things are you are not seeing in your normal life. When I started meditating, I immediately discovered I was angry many times a day; several years later, having tried to respond to this reality in various ways, I got divorced as I found it impossible to ignore this previously un-perceived aspect of my reality. Now I am happier and more calm and so on, but the meditation definitely caused some shake up not more calm for quite some time.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a good resource for descriptions of some Dzogchen meditation practices?

Getting the practice just right seems to require personal connection with a master for whatever reason, but Sam Harris does a pretty good job of communicating the essence of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPWiEaOlfc . There are also lots of resources you can find online, though I can't say I recommend any one in particular. It is the kind of thing that requires a precise fit and the right conditions.

There seems to be an endless variety of Pointing Out / Rushen instructions in Dzogchen. Some work better than others for individual meditators. But personally I feel there's a strong placebo component to it as well. If you come in with a) good baseline concentration, b) an expectation of receiving real wisdom from a guru that you are in some awe of, you might be much more receptive than someone who stumbles into such a thing and treats it as another tourist attraction. The Pointing Out experience seems like a kind of hypnosis session; it matters how receptive you are at the moment.

Personally I don't think there's anything to the Dzogchen psychic connection its adherents claim you need to establish with a guru to experience the real thing. It's just woo woo influenced by Shaktipat from Hinduism.

In my opinion one of the best Western teachers is Loch Kelly. Although he doesn't call it Dzogchen, it seems to be pretty much the same thing and without the maddening obscurantism of Dzogchen texts translated to English. He has a lot of videos out but I liked this (paid) Vimeo course: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/lochkellyhow/

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#70

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

I know very little about meditation, but it seems to me that a goal could be to develop awareness of and perhaps even more control over one’s thoughts, and that emptying one’s mind might be a useful exercise even when the goal is not to have a permanently empty mind. Kinda like how the goal of weightlifting usually isn’t to be able to permanently carry around heavy weights all the time.
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