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Meditation and the Unconscious

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

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Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#41

Post by weq »

andai wrote: post #35
throw1234651234 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

Here's my understanding of "shadow work", which I believe was invented by Jung. Unpleasant thoughts and emotions are made conscious. In this way, the energy behind them is released and they no longer influence you subconsciously. This ties in nicely with the Buddhist Vipassana mindfulness meditation technique, although they are separate processes. In practical terms, I notice that something is bothering me, or that t…

This is sublimely deep and the root cause of the worlds problems. In cases where you cannot attain this naturally, mother nature has given psychoactive plants you along.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#42

Post by tacoman »

damontal wrote: post #36
i_like_apis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Sam Harris kinda does this in his guided meditations. At times he asks you to sit in a noisy public place. His aim seems to be to to try to get you to quickly turn your attention on the thing that is currently doing the noticing. The point being a realization that there’s nothing there when you try to turn your attention to it. And that’s supposed to produce some kind of realization. Never worked for me in practice.

Same here. I have been trying to understand this practice for years and have never succeeded. Maybe someday it will click.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#43

Post by lukasb »

monktastic1 wrote: post #40

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

I think he did address it:

"True meditation, however, is not just taking a break. It is not simply closing one’s eyes to the problem for a while. Meditation goes to the root of the problem. You need to become aware of the destructive aspect of compulsive attachment and all of the conflictive mental states that you mentioned. "

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#44

Post by beaconstudios »

andai wrote: post #35
throw1234651234 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

Here's my understanding of "shadow work", which I believe was invented by Jung. Unpleasant thoughts and emotions are made conscious. In this way, the energy behind them is released and they no longer influence you subconsciously. This ties in nicely with the Buddhist Vipassana mindfulness meditation technique, although they are separate processes. In practical terms, I notice that something is bothering me, or that t…

Well put - lingering and unprocessed emotions don't go away, they fester.

Shadow work often refers to dredging up feelings you have pushed down as "unacceptable" - anger being a common one. The idea being that shadow work helps you move towards total emotional development by embracing all of your emotional faculties.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#45

Post by beaconstudios »

weq wrote: post #41
andai wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my understanding of "shadow work", which I believe was invented by Jung. Unpleasant thoughts and emotions are made conscious. In this way, the energy behind them is released and they no longer influence you subconsciously. This ties in nicely with the Buddhist Vipassana mindfulness meditation technique, although they are separate processes. In practical terms, I notice that something is bothering me, or that t…

This is sublimely deep and the root cause of the worlds problems. In cases where you cannot attain this naturally, mother nature has given psychoactive plants you along.

Not all drugs help with emotional repression. The research seems to point towards mushrooms, LSD and MDMA as good options though.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#46

Post by dbtc »

i_like_apis wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

Yeah in the vipassana tradition check out 'Mahasi style noting'.

In Zen, look up 'do nothing' or 'just sitting' - I don't know the traditional language. Shinzen Young has really good content on youtube IMO.

Focusing on a single point is called 'anapana' in the vipassana tradition and is used as a way to calm the mind - like sharpening a knife - before moving on the the juicier stuff.

It's sort of paradoxical but by giving attention to every passing thought/sensation, eventually they slow down and everything becomes much calmer, quieter, and clear.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#47

Post by monktastic1 »

lukasb wrote: post #43
monktastic1 wrote: post #40

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

I think he did address it: "True meditation, however, is not just taking a break. It is not simply closing one’s eyes to the problem for a while. Meditation goes to the root of the problem. You need to become aware of the destructive aspect of compulsive attachment and all of the conflictive mental states that you mentioned. "

I saw that. This quote can still give the impression that it is not closing one's eyes "to the problem," but is still about closing one's physical eyes. Or that it's about closing one's eyes to the problem for a bit (but not "a while.") I didn't see it clearly communicated that Dzogchen meditation is something does while in the very situations that WS is talking about.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#48

Post by [deleted] »

i_like_apis wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

[deleted]

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#49

Post by dbtc »

monktastic1 wrote: post #40

I am surprised that Matthieu did not address this question head-on: > This brings me to a critical issue: the side effects of meditation. One could argue that a strategy consisting of closing one’s eyes when facing conflicts, in escaping from problems rather than solving them, is perhaps a suboptimal strategy. In Dzogchen meditation (which is his main practice), one does not close one's eyes or always sit in a specia…

Closing one's eyes can be very helpful for becoming conscious of subtle things, especially for those who, like me, are hyperliterate screen fiends.

Sitting with good posture in a dark room also really helps. An isolation tank is good too, I have heard. But none are necessary. Just good tools when applied properly.

And sometimes it's best to go for a walk, think it through, or sit for a while. Other times it's best to act without hesitation.A big part of the skill is knowing when to do what. That's my take.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#50

Post by waserwill »

i_like_apis wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

This is maybe similar to some Jewish equivalents to mediation. The focus is ultimately on better action (the concept of commandments places an emphasis on doing over having the correct mindset or beliefs). These forms of meditation range from contemplative (of the characteristics of G-d, mystical concepts, etc.) to self improving (e.g. going out alone in nature and just saying to G-d whatever comes to mind, or visualizing what one learned to engage again in the topic, for understanding or building virtues). Jewish prayer and study can also be meditative, and can be either communal or secluded, verbalized or silent. [0] [1]

There are certainly parallels in other Western traditions, particularly in Sufism [2] [3]. Personally, I think that the most effective form would be the one closest to a person's tradition; ideally, meditation is a practice that's embedded in a wider setting (of legends, language, ideas).

Some more info: [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitbodedut [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_meditation [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqabah [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm

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