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Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

eleanorkonik.com

61–70 of 181 posts

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hosted on Digital Ocean, and the irony is, I'm literally mid-migration to Ghost from Wordpress — if this had happened a week later this wouldn't have happened. I'm trying to figure out how to upgrade the droplet but being honest, my husband is the one who set all this up for me, so it's going to take me a minute to figure out how to add more bandwidth or whatever.

I'm trying to figure out how to upgrade the droplet but being honest, my husband is the one who set all this up for me Yeah, HN can be all "why didn't you just...?" when a site gets hit with traffic, but you know what? I've been in this industry for over 30 years, had a decent stint at Microsoft and other companies you've heard of, working on stuff you've probably used. And if my stupid blog somehow ended up on the f…

If I can figure out how to GET to my wordpress page for long enough, I'll set up a redirect and mirror it as an article on https://obsidianroundup.org/ — which is literally what I was working on this week, haha, the nice folks at Ghost's concierge already helped me do it for my history nerd stuff newsletter.

Someone reached out and said I can use Cloudflare to fix this, so I'm gonna go try that, doot doot.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#63
Tags I've always thought of conceptual while Folders are at the very least absolute.

Let's say I'm recording events for my future travels. trips/paris.md and trips/cancun.md are in my folder structure with them tagged as business and vacation respectively. Later, I can go back and add a "mistakes" tag to cancun.md, but really if ever need to look up all my trips, I know it will be in trips and it's incontrovertible fact that cancun was a trip.

There's room for both, but tagging historically came out of a need where search functions were poor. These days tagging is unnecessary work imo.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#64
It should be possible to mimic tags with folders & clever scripting that moves files around according to their "tags".

Imagine a command like:

    tagmv file1 file2 directory1 directory2 -t tag1 tag2 tag3
where it moves the files/directories to something like

   ~/t/tag1#/tag2#/tag3#/
Or instead of using "#" could use some other special/rare character/unicode to indicate that it is a "tag-directory".

The hierarchy of the tag-directories could ordered from the most common to least common tags. The most common tag, would have the tag-directory under the top level directory (something like ~/t/ to prevent confusion with the rest of the filesystem perhaps?).

The files & tag-directories could get re-organized every time the usage of tags changes, in order to keep the hierarchy from most common tags to least common.

A set of tools like tagmv, tagcd, tagls, etc could work with this tag-based structure.

Thoughts?

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#65

After the past 5 years or so of experiencing the supposed best "folderless" computing has to offer on iOS and ideologically similar platforms. I've gained huge respect for how beautiful the concept of the folder is.

Folders are simple, even if tags can imitate them, they can't replace their structure. Tags are a good fit for items that naturally fall into several categories, like music or books, but not for general file systems.

And yet, folders are tags.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#66
post #57
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except when you forgot to put it in the right place because you just had to extract it and do that one quick thing... I'd rather not rely on my own willingness to organize files so I'll take a search tool any day.

Nah, that's when you just have an "Unsorted" folder. Sort that once per week. Problem solved

This is how I treat my project (personal and work) task management. Throw things into the inbox as they come up unless I have the time to organize right then, later on sort into various contexts and tag them (to the extent I care to tag) when I have a chance. Once I've tagged it, it's clear of the inbox. Also how I used to use Gmail (back when I used the web interface, which I gave up on when it started crawling on my new and bleeding edge, at the time, desktop).

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#67
I keep my personal notes in an app that I wrote which is backed by SQLite. It resembles a wiki.

First, I tried tags. This seemed like a good idea and was a lot of fun at first, but eventually I got _really_ tired of having to curate tags for all of my notes and boy there were a lot of them! It's not something you can just do once either, because every time you update a note you have to remember to change the list of tags as well. I wound up with many articles whose tags no longer (or never did) match the content.

To get myself out of the tag-curating business, I then tried the "folder" idea by separating areas of concerns into namespaces. So, all of the Python-related notes go under the "Python" namespace. All of the database notes into "Databases," and so on. All the did was shift the problem space. Which namespace does the note on SQLAlchemy go in? If an article does not fit into an existing namespace, should I create one for it now, or put it in the root and hope I remember to move it if a second related note comes along? To put it succinctly, my notes do not fit into a DAG.

My third iteration dropped both tags and namespaces and implemented the FTS5 search built into SQLite. Two years later, I have no regrets. The only "curation" I have to worry about is giving each note an accurate title and breaking up large notes into smaller ones when it makes sense. Now when I need something I just search for it and it shows up in the results.

Google for all of their other faults got one thing extremely right when it came to web content and email: curation is a fine hobby but for Really Getting Shit Done, you index the content well and then just search for it when you need it.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#68
post #60

Trees/hierarchies ("folders") are for organization, unconstrained graphs/networks ("tags") are for ontologies. Crossing these streams leads to a lot of trouble. When flexible graphs/networks are abused for organizational purposes, you get circular dependencies, spaghetti code, and general dysfunction. Organizations (code or people) need to be easy to navigate. When rigid hierarchies are abused for classification purp…

The challenge is knowing which one you are dealing with at any particular time.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#69

With symlinks (or hard links for that matter) you can have folders work like tags in a real filesystem. That said, binary classification (object A is a member of class B, a function with a boolean truth value) is the basic concept in classification. That is, any classification can be represented correctly with binary classification. There really are a few things where you assign something a category from a finite set…

Is there some reason that a filesystem couldn't be written to permit multiple paths to the same file without the clunkiness of sym links?

The problem with multiple paths leading to the same file isn't with the file system, but with the file system users. When you're writing scripts or programs against file systems it is really convenient to assume that each filename is one and only one file, that the file has a unique name, and that the file system is strictly a tree.

File systems can technically break all of these; files can contain multiple files within themselves with many file systems, the ability to have multiple paths leading to the same file means that if you just have the file in hand you don't have a unique path, which also means that if you remove that name it doesn't mean you've removed the file. But most of the time, you can kinda get away with writing normal code and it'll do the right thing. But that last one really burns. It is really easy to write code assuming file systems are just trees, and in particular can't have infinite loops, and be wrong about that.

Re: Yet another hot take on “folders versus tags”

#70
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hosted on Digital Ocean, and the irony is, I'm literally mid-migration to Ghost from Wordpress — if this had happened a week later this wouldn't have happened. I'm trying to figure out how to upgrade the droplet but being honest, my husband is the one who set all this up for me, so it's going to take me a minute to figure out how to add more bandwidth or whatever.

If you want something quick and easy, just sign up for a free account at Cloudflare and hook up their CDN. It's a useful thing to have even when you've switched to WordPress, too.

Ah, bless, this is exactly what I am doing right now and it is much less terrifying than I thought it would be.

Ironically, this has been on my todo list to learn — I want to mirror my Obsidian notes and that requires Cloudflare and before today I've been too nervous to muck around with it.

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