Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

al.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 184 posts

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#91

Post by pessimizer »

dvt wrote: post #78
OnlineGladiator wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. Good. Sometimes we need regulation, otherwise bankers would crash the economy while getting bailouts with taxpayer money, workers would be paid below minimum wage, child labor would be rampant, and so on. The government is supposed to represent the people, although clearly money is the real voting power today. I'd like to see John Deere get sued into…

> Sometimes we need regulation, otherwise bankers would crash the economy while getting bailouts with taxpayer money... I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be satire.

Bailouts aren't regulation, they're what happens when people are allowed to make messes that they aren't responsible (either through lack of ability or purchased privilege) for cleaning up.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#92

Post by chrisbolt »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

> somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly

Do they actually have a monopoly?

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#93

Post by gtvwill »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

Lol that you think markets are free. Regulation exists in swathes. Free market economics is a lie, its never existed.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#94

Post by rootsudo »

erosenbe0 wrote: post #65
cletus wrote: post #40

The example is of course egregious ($600 for a software update for a wire that got wet, basically). I fully support being able to repair your own stuff but I have no idea how you regulate this so companies don't gouge "owners" for aftermarket services. Earlier today there was a thread about e-bike battery prices (tl'dr they're ridiculous expensive). I really wish rechargeable batteries had interchangeable form factor…

In the USA we have Underwriters Laboratories to certify for you if your electronic widget is up to safety standards. Look on some of your widgets and you will see a UL logo in a circle. There is also a way to check the authenticity. The federal government for example won't purchase various types of widgets unless they meet recognized standards.

Why do we trust a private company to certify electronics?

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#95

Post by rasz »

bluGill wrote: post #39
aaron_m04 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't John Deere just have customers sign away their right to sue or be party to a class action? They could make that a requirement for new customers or customers seeking repairs.

What about after the tractor is sold to someone else? The EPA also doesn't like the idea of people making things not pass emissions.

In most states (all?) this happens thru OBD II, so not a real test, with tons of exemptions depending on car weight/engine type/age.

This https://www.wep-inc.com/inspection-maintenance-programs/texa... is hilarious. You arent testing car emissions, you are reading car computer self report.

In EU, NZ/AU and probably many more places Tailpipe gas emissions test is routine. There are even mobile units with portable Emissions measurement systems. Meanwhile even California doesnt mandate tailpipe tests :o

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#96

Post by rasz »

stickfigure wrote: post #87
gerdesj wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I dont understand why people keep buying JD tractors." Let's get closer to home: why do people buy Windows and Apples, despite a fair few free (really free) alternatives?

Tractors are more plug-replaceable than operating systems. There are only so many ways to eg turn over soil.

Not if you already bought into dongle ecosystem.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#97

Post by heavyset_go »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

> If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market.

The "free market" without regulation is mythic ideal that's never actually existed. Regulations are necessary to maintain healthy markets, and markets rely on states to enforce the terms that make trade and markets possible.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#98

Post by heavyset_go »

dahfizz wrote: post #89
dvt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes we need regulation, otherwise bankers would crash the economy while getting bailouts with taxpayer money... I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be satire.

Quoted post unavailable.

The government didn't force anyone to give AAA ratings to junk financial assets.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#99

Post by FpUser »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

Government can do the other thing. It can "stop interfering" and refuse to protect those monopolists. Make it so that once they fail co conduct business in fair (however that defined) manner deny them rights to chase others in court.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#100

Post by badRNG »

heavyset_go wrote: post #97
rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

> If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. The "free market" without regulation is mythic ideal that's never actually existed. Regulations are necessary to maintain healthy markets, and markets rely on states to enforce the terms that make trade and markets possible.

Free markets have a well established, well understood "tendency towards monopoly." A truly free market is one dominated by cartels [0] (not to be thought of as something unique to the drug industry.) The market forces that spur innovation like competition, absent a government that intervenes, best resolves competition through either ceaseless merging or subsumption of the competition. The domination of markets by cartels is seen in countries whose governments have either been effectively captured by industry or are otherwise incapable of intervening in the affairs of the market. Prior to antitrust legislation, cartels dominated industries at the dawn of the capitalist economy.

Merging with competition allows both players to charge more without providing greater value, which is always the best option for both players.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

Post reply on HN