Wasn't aware of this, but can't say I'm surprised. Personally, I'm still happy with Fastmail, which uses customer subscriptions fees to fund a professional support department, as well as contributing to email-related FOSS. (Among other things, obviously.)
Ask HN: Gmail account security
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Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#252Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#253Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#254Wasn't aware of this, but can't say I'm surprised. Personally, I'm still happy with Fastmail, which uses customer subscriptions fees to fund a professional support department, as well as contributing to email-related FOSS. (Among other things, obviously.)
Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
With Google’s nonexistent customer service I’d be afraid of being locked out for any arbitrary reason and having no recourse no matter what recovery procedures I prepared for. Contrast that to my bank where I can go to the branch, show ID, and get problems logging in resolved.
A plug from a very satisfied customer: I pay $5/month for Fastmail. I've emailed support before and reached a human within hours. They helped me with my problem, because it was their job and I'm paying them to do it. Email is too important to rely on a free service which has a history of shutting people out, at any time, for any reason.
Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#256Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wow, that's awful. I wonder who's idea it was? Is it doing anything more than checking user agent (trivial to spoof), because if not that seems entirely hostile.
It's not just the user-agent, it is definitely doing non-trivial fingerprinting (both linked projects also had UA mitigations before). We don't have an easy workaround (besides a sketchy cookie hack that took hours to reverse engineer) right now and have been trying to get in touch with them.
Can confirm.
To generalize and understand why, big corps have to deal with an insane amount of (often automated) abuse, so they build profiles using data collection to assess your risk level. Being in the wrong cohort (say unusual browser, small country, rare language, use a vpn etc) can affect your score. Basically it's these massive bayesian filters that output how suspicious some activity is. Whether you're signing in to Gmail, returning a product, buying something with a credit card or booking an Uber, some form of score is computed and then used to allow/deny/delay/verify. Obviously this is well established in the insurance and finance industries, but make no mistake, it happens everywhere.
This approach is understandable from a business perspective, but imo deeply troubling for an open society. You don't have to squint much in order to see the similarities to social credit systems, EVEN if there is no grand totalitarian state-coordinated behind it.
As usual, the first step is transparency so we can actually discuss these issues based on accurate data, but that's very difficult today. Usually fraud and abuse prevention is among the most secretive departments, they never share anything.
Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#258https://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/12/18/2046221/why-google-...
Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#259One day I logged in to my Amazon account from a different country. Mind you, I have 2FA/OTP enabled in my account, and I entered it correctly. They also made me click on a link they sent via email to "verify my login". A couple hours later my account was blocked due to "suspicious login(s)" (i.e. mine), and the order I placed cancelled. They had me wait 24h until I could contact someone at support that could unblock…
Serious question: is there any examples of a robust way of doing customer security? Even just a proposal/document or blog post (doesn't need to have been implemented). I sort of feel no one has figured this out yet (if its even possible).
Companies just need to make sure their insurers will pay out, which if there is not proven solution seems about all they can do.. tho a little humility and honesty that that is their position would go a long way.
Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security
#260It’s this kind of thing that has had me moving most everything off Google over the last 6 months. It’s just not safe for me to have 20 years of photos, emails and documents in the hands of a company that may cut me loose at any moment. After decades of slowly moving my life to “the cloud”, I bought a Synology nas, and now all my stuff lives in my own house (though backed up externally, of course).