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Ask HN: Gmail account security

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Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#151

One day I logged in to my Amazon account from a different country. Mind you, I have 2FA/OTP enabled in my account, and I entered it correctly. They also made me click on a link they sent via email to "verify my login". A couple hours later my account was blocked due to "suspicious login(s)" (i.e. mine), and the order I placed cancelled. They had me wait 24h until I could contact someone at support that could unblock…

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Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incentivized top-to-bottom. Every audit is structured around checking boxes, absolutely zero interest in actual security. Just state you have processes, that they meet the loosely written (or in some cases bizarrely specific) spec, and be able to provide some writing that explain them at least at a surface level. This is the case for just about every framework, and even though these systems are just for window d…

I recently quit my job in Information Security. We used the NIST 800-53 framework. 99% of people following security frameworks just blindly check in boxes during audits or control assessments. A security control/requirement can’t be met? No problem! Just create another piece of paperwork accepting the risk and get it signed off by the system owner (who has the most incentive to not inconvenience their project or depa…

The entire system is about abstracting away liability, not keeping things secure. Every framework is like this. The fact that companies are paying auditors to review their own work creates a completely upside down incentive model, and turns it into effectively a rubber stamp. You have to do things horrifically wrong for an auditor to care, and it's not like they're actually going to fail you, they'll just tell you to fix it and give you a generous deadline (or, for frameworks that allow it, do what you described and have it signed off as a known risk).

Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#153
post #17

I'm having a hard time getting my head wrapped around the idea of relying on Gmail (or any other online identity provider) without enabling 2-factor authentication. The best way to avoid this kind of "AI hell" is just to take control of your own account security and set up some additional factors.

For some people, anonymity of use has a higher priority.

I've largely given up on personal use of email, full stop.

Have had an account since the 1980s.

Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#155
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2FA and a recovery email on my Gmail account, yet I have run into this issue. If Google thinks something is suspicious, it will decline your 2FA codes and recovery attempts—it will just tell you that you entered the wrong code. Only after you finally get back in do you find an email in your inbox explaining that the correct code was entered, but Google blocked it because it was suspicious. This happens to me f…

If you're entering a code, the 2FA method you're using is still susceptible to mitm-style phishing attacks, which is what this kind of location based check is securing against. You'd need a push notification or yubikey based 2fa check to get the same level of security.

AIUI, they do send push notifications if you happen to have a mobile device that's logged in to the same account. Maybe they should do the same for the "suspicious login to an unused 'secondary' account" scenario? They're already sending "recovery" emails, so it wouldn't be that big of a change.

Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#156

Yep, and it was even more aggravating. > have three gmail accounts > primary, name.surname@gmail.com > secondary, name.surname.purchases@gmail.com > tertiary, name.surname.work@gmail.com > secondary and tertiary have primary as a recovery address > log in/out once a week in 2nd and 3rd > last August, try to log into name.surname.work > "Password is incorrect" > WTH?! of course it's correct. > try several times, Googl…

Perhaps you're not supposed to have more than 1 gmail account, and the assumptions in their code cannot deal with more than 1 account per user, or worse, they actively try to discourage it.

Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#157
One site I've found particularly annoying in this regard is ebay. I'll log in, enter a 2FA code (both SMS and email), do whatever I need to, and then 30 minutes later I'll get an email saying my password has been reset because of suspicious activity. ("your eBay account has been secured because your login information may have been used without your permission") This has happened several times now. At least they haven't canceled any of my orders or anything.

Re: Ask HN: Gmail account security

#160

They're trying to deter you from using Gmail anonymously/as a burner email.

I think that's it. They might consider three use cases: 1. normal usage multiple times a day, 2. grandma using it once a month, but always from the same device at the same location, 3. people using as an anonymous/burner account (likely from a clean/incognito browser session, maybe using a VPN, without phone number on file, etc.)

With the current implementation, 1 and 2 still mostly works, and they don't care that they make it impossible/inconvenient for 3.

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