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Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

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Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#61

Post by shagie »

Rygian wrote: post #56
shagie wrote: post #35

For industrial equipment (such as a tractor), who is liable for injuries if the equipment is repaired or modified by a 3rd party and it goes to court later? https://www.biren.com/blog/2020/september/defective-machiner... In particular https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1200/1245... > The [misuse/ [or] modification] was so highly extraordinary that it was not reasonably foreseeable to [name of defendan…

No, we're not expecting farmers to be software engineers. But we expect they can hire actual software engineers other than Deere's.

According to existing product liability law (if I'm reading this correctly, I am not a lawyer), if John Deer allows a farmer to insert an SD card with different firmware or settings or whatever, John Deer is still liable for the tractor even if it was changes that were made by the developer.

If that 3rd party firmware overapplied fertilizer - JD would be liable. If the auto driving feature was modified and ran out into the road and killed someone, JD would be liable.

Product liability for industrial equipment falls in different category than other product liabilities and all industrial equipment (including tractors) are classified as "unreasonably dangerous" and it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to prevent 3rd party modifications that may result in damages that could have been foreseen with the existing setup.

If John Deer allows someone to change the software, then it is foreseeable that anything that is software controlled may be changed and behave in a way that is unintended... and John Deer is liable unless they prevent that software change.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#62

Post by [deleted] »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

[deleted]

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#63

Post by thelittleone »

Am I being overly cynical in concluding that a growing % of companies will screw over their customers for their own gain. Doesn't this myopic "screw the customer" mentality damage brand reputation? Sure does for me. The growing discontent amongst a companies customer base is creating a new market opportunity for a competitor. When I feel screwed by a company like this, I find a good alternative, then jump ship and NEVER go back (even if they course correct some years later). From that point on I'm a vocal detractor of the brand. If no quality alternative exists it's even worse because you know the company is screwing you knowing you have no good alternatives.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#65

Post by erosenbe0 »

cletus wrote: post #40

The example is of course egregious ($600 for a software update for a wire that got wet, basically). I fully support being able to repair your own stuff but I have no idea how you regulate this so companies don't gouge "owners" for aftermarket services. Earlier today there was a thread about e-bike battery prices (tl'dr they're ridiculous expensive). I really wish rechargeable batteries had interchangeable form factor…

In the USA we have Underwriters Laboratories to certify for you if your electronic widget is up to safety standards. Look on some of your widgets and you will see a UL logo in a circle. There is also a way to check the authenticity. The federal government for example won't purchase various types of widgets unless they meet recognized standards.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#66

Post by 8bitsrule »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #55

I dont understand why people keep buying JD tractors. They have a reputation for reliability, so do many other brands. Kubota, Deutz, Fent, Massy, Case, New Holland... a bunch more. It's amazing the brand loyalty hold JD have on farmers.

I read somewhere recently that the market for old, used JD's has grown dramatically in the recent past.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#67

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

cletus wrote: post #40

The example is of course egregious ($600 for a software update for a wire that got wet, basically). I fully support being able to repair your own stuff but I have no idea how you regulate this so companies don't gouge "owners" for aftermarket services. Earlier today there was a thread about e-bike battery prices (tl'dr they're ridiculous expensive). I really wish rechargeable batteries had interchangeable form factor…

This has all been solved already. Cars.

I modded my car and it didn't void the warranty. I can goto the dealership, 3rd party, or repair it myself. I can swap out nearly everything for non OEM parts.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#68

Post by brokenmachine »

rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

>If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market.

Haha, free market! Hilarious!

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#69

Post by pessimizer »

thelittleone wrote: post #63

Am I being overly cynical in concluding that a growing % of companies will screw over their customers for their own gain. Doesn't this myopic "screw the customer" mentality damage brand reputation? Sure does for me. The growing discontent amongst a companies customer base is creating a new market opportunity for a competitor. When I feel screwed by a company like this, I find a good alternative, then jump ship and NE…

The monopolist can just buy the competition that you jumped ship to. Now your choice is between A) the services that are too terrible to be bought out, or B) services that are not taking the buyout because they are irrational. Incompetence or insanity.

Re: Alabama farmer sues John Deere for ‘right to repair’

#70

Post by kazen44 »

thrwyoilarticle wrote: post #59
rafale wrote: post #45

John Deere will just claim they never sold him a tractor, but rather signed a custom contract with him that gives him access and custody of one in return of some constraints he agreed upon. If the government intervenes, it would undermine the free market. But you could argue it's already undermined, both by the government itself and the fact that somehow John Deere managed to achieve a monopoly in a sector critical t…

The free market as it relates to farming is pure kayfabe. Subsidised, targeted crops* sold only to approved customers using publicly-funded roads. *or even subsidising a lack of crops

the food supply also shouldn't be a free market.

People speculating on food prices/availablity (or even worse, hoarding it to influence price) is usually not taken very kindly by the population or goverment because of the results in massive social upheaval.

Food is actually subsidized to an extent, because not having your basic needs met usually results in massive undermining of the power of the state.

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