Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with the flat earthers, and the more conspiratorial portion of the climate deniers, is it's not clear even the people making the claims believe it. They don't seem to mind ideas that contradict theirs, so long as the central belief that there is some sort of vast conspiracy is upheld. You can't really engage with people who aren't all that interested in what's actually true.
>it's not clear even the people making the claims believe it. They don't seem to mind ideas that contradict theirs, so long as the central belief that there is some sort of vast conspiracy is upheld. That seems like a truly bizarre statement, how would that make sense? Some people would embrace ideas they would not believe in, to further the public's perception that there is an ongoing conspiracy? That seems perfectl…
How trust undermines science
111–120 of 120 posts
Re: How trust undermines science
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't Erastosthenes's experiment merely allow you to calculate the size of the earth if you already accept that it is spherical? As I understand the experiment it does not (nor was it meant to) prove that the earth is a sphere.
Can flat earth explain the phenomenon in a parsimonious way?
It's probably going to depend on what you mean by 'the phenomenon'. Do you mean that the sun casts shadows at different angles at the same time of day based on your location? Then yes, it absolutely does. In fact some believers in the flat earth theory use the experiment to establish the distance of the sun from the earth.
If you mean something else, then I have no idea. I'm not a proponent of the flat earth theory, nor am I a mind reader.
The experiment you proposed does not disprove the theory of a flat earth though, parsimoniously or otherwise.
It sounds like you may have rejected the notion of a flat earth purely on faith after all?
Re: How trust undermines science
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can flat earth explain the phenomenon in a parsimonious way?
It's probably going to depend on what you mean by 'the phenomenon'. Do you mean that the sun casts shadows at different angles at the same time of day based on your location? Then yes, it absolutely does. In fact some believers in the flat earth theory use the experiment to establish the distance of the sun from the earth. If you mean something else, then I have no idea. I'm not a proponent of the flat earth theory,…
What distance do they find? My googling yields nothing. The results must also be consistent with the "circumference" of the earth.
And yes, I reject all other evidence but this.
Re: How trust undermines science
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
In which case, all the better a reason to engage in good faith discussion, so as to identify those academic failings that create such movements and help address them decisively and appropriately
The root cause is mental illness, academic trauma is a symptom.
When everything is a mental illness, then nothing is.
Re: How trust undermines science
#115Part of the problem is how people learn what science is. Science, despite the name, is really all about doubt. Unfortunately in school it’s taught as certainty. In school you do “experiments” and if the answer doesn’t match what is in the book you are marked down. Often you have to memorize a bunch of assertions or even simply names, without any epistemic context. Then in the real world you discover that scientists c…
> In school you do “experiments” and if the answer doesn’t match what is in the book you are marked down. This is unsurprising and probably obvious. The purpose of the exercise is learning how to do experiments reliably so that at some later point when doing experiments to test a hypothesis you can have some confidence that the results you produce are actual data and not just noise. When doing science class "experime…
[deleted]
Re: How trust undermines science
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
The root cause is mental illness, academic trauma is a symptom.
When everything is a mental illness, then nothing is.
Not everything is mental illness, but dyslexia, ADHD, and other disabilities cause learning problems.
Many flat earthers are illiterate. I can't imagine they put a lot of trust into a system that would not think very highly of them, as a result.
Re: How trust undermines science
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
When everything is a mental illness, then nothing is.
Not everything is mental illness, but dyslexia, ADHD, and other disabilities cause learning problems. Many flat earthers are illiterate. I can't imagine they put a lot of trust into a system that would not think very highly of them, as a result.
This is highly speculative. And dyslexia and learning difficulties are not mental illness (at least not in the way you imply).
I would have far less reason to believe such populations would be 'more' likely to engage in critical thinking (flawed or otherwise), compared to simply uncritically following mainstream thought.
But, anyway. Doesn't matter either way.
Re: How trust undermines science
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not everything is mental illness, but dyslexia, ADHD, and other disabilities cause learning problems. Many flat earthers are illiterate. I can't imagine they put a lot of trust into a system that would not think very highly of them, as a result.
This is highly speculative. And dyslexia and learning difficulties are not mental illness (at least not in the way you imply). I would have far less reason to believe such populations would be 'more' likely to engage in critical thinking (flawed or otherwise), compared to simply uncritically following mainstream thought. But, anyway. Doesn't matter either way.
I'm not implying anything, I'm directly stating that there's a correlation between mental disorders that cause learning difficulties and participation in conspiracy theories such as QAnon and flat earth.
Yes it's speculative, but it's also predictive. If you can engage people who belong to these groups honestly, you will hear, over and over again, stories about how academic establishments have failed them in some traumatic way or another, leaving them mistrustful of what is, in effect, the entire concept of learning. And nearly every one of these stories you will be told originate at some form of mental disorder.
These people aren't just stupid, they're actively anti-learning, which makes them so much worse than stupid; they want to make others stupid too.
Re: How trust undermines science
#119Re: How trust undermines science
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
But most people aren't rational and don't prove any fact independently for themselves, or have the capability to do so. They believe in what they're told. They were told god and heaven are real so they believe it. Their scientific beliefs are similarly founded.
I think your point is supported by the number of times you hear people talking about having "faith" in science. This idea that science requires faith is something that confuses and annoys me. The whole point of science is that it (in general) does not require faith as it provides evidence. There are some aspects of science where the presentation of hypothesis verges on faith, many aspects of cosmology where falsifiab…
That's true, however the vast majority of science is sufficiently complex that only another scientist in the field is capable of understanding and evaluating that evidence.