My understanding of US labor law is this is flamingly illegal. And you would be well served to talk to a lawyer for yourself before you make any moves.
Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
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Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#52If your company competes with mine, then I encourage you to select for attributes other than fitness for the job.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#53Unfortunately discrimination is alive and well in our days and it's called "Affirmative Action".
I'm not sure about the USA but in the UK discriminating is acceptable as long as you are discriminating in favour of a category which is under-represented.
Of course, given you can split humans in an infinite number of categories, this is basically meaningless and it's just plain discrimination.
One of my previous employers in the UK was working primarily with recruiters that brought candidates with the correct gender / race.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#54Assuming you have one, it might be worth talking to your HR department to clarify these instructions. Maybe there is something you aren't getting, or this is something setup by clueless management and they are unaware and would want to intervene. Beyond that when in doubt, talk to a lawyer. At first glance to me (I am not a lawyer) this seems like it's probably illegal, but it's entirely possible there are nuances to…
HR only exists to protect the company from liability and lawsuits. Talk to them first at your own risk, and realize that almost no good can come from doing so. At best they will now see you as a 'problem' employee that is asking too many questions, and at worst it could start a chain of actions that lead to your termination or leaving the company (for completely unrelated reasons of course).
> HR only exists to protect the company from liability and lawsuits.
Exactly. This is exactly why HR will want to know this is happening. So they can shut it down. A half decent HR department will recognize that this carries major risk of lawsuits, and want it killed. You bringing information to about another part of the company trying to do something illegal doesn't make you a "problem" employee.
There are a lot of cases where I'd recommend against talking to HR, but getting a spreadsheet from your boss and asking "hey this seems weird, is it legal?" is one of the things they are good for. Your boss is far more likely to hold a grudge than HR.
Obviously, don't go in screaming it's illegal and they must do something on the off chance it was your Chief People Officer's shitty idea.
And again, nothing wrong with going to an employment lawyer first. But when I've seen blatantly illegal stuff like this it's usually that HR isn't involved in the hiring process and they want to know when it happens so they can educate the relevant parties.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#55how do you choose between white female and black male given that both are equally qualified ?
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#56It’s shocking to me how much the courts and executive branch have hollowed out the Civil Rights Act.
> It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin
This is the law of the US. It couldn’t be more clear that your company is breaking the law. And yet it’s been completely neutered by activist judges and well-meaning executives and bureaucrats.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#57I am a minority and I find it disgusting. If you want to increase diversity - don’t give internal referrals more weight than external applications. Recruit from a diversity of schools or heck I’m even okay with training programs that help underrepresented groups prepare for tech interviews by targeting schools like HBCUs and local non prestigious schools.
On the other hand, I mentored a female intern last summer. After talking to her, I’m convinced that attractive females in tech have it a lot harder than males. They have to be extra careful to set boundaries and not give off the wrong signals by mistake.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#58Legality aside, this is a terrible and naive way to think of DEI. Candidates recruited this way will have a stigma attached to them (“they were recruited because they were X”). A better way is to enforce DSA - Diverse Slate Approach - which ensure that you don’t recruit anybody without having considered multiple genders and/or ethnicity before making the offer. The goal of DSA is to recruit the best candidate for the…
Since time is finite, with DSA you will likely deny interviews on the basis of race and sex, and that is morally and legally wrong too.
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#59[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Am I being instructed to do something illegal? (DEI hiring practices)
#60Might be worth asking Reddit's r/legaladvice (but take what they say with a grain of salt). In the UK this would be illegal afaik - you are only allowed to favour one sex over the other if there are two equivalent applicants for a position and you are trying to counteract an existing imbalance in your team. But you can't outright reject one sex from the start.
This is incorrect. I hired in the UK and we were legally discriminating based on people being "minority" or women. It sickens me.
From Wikipedia:
>"Section 159 of the Equality Act 2010 allows an employer to treat an applicant or employee with a protected characteristic (eg race, sex or age) more favourably in connection with recruitment or promotion than someone without that characteristic who is as qualified for the role. The employer must reasonably think that people with the protected characteristic suffer a disadvantage or are under-represented in that particular activity. Taking the positive action must be a proportionate means of enabling or encouraging people to overcome the disadvantage or to take part in the activity."