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22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

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Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's why we should be taxing the hell out of these companies. It's not just about raising revenue. It's about allowing other companies to compete with them.

That means that country that will do that will not have competitive big tech companies and other countries will have. Also, big companies are needed because there are technologies that cannot be produced by small companies. I do not understand recent tendency to make them look bad. Big companies are good for country and economy. Punishing companies for success is harmful for the progress. I think letting market decid…

This is not a recent trend. America has had a big political issue over large industry since day one. The Jeffersonian vision of a nation of yeoman farmers (who maybe owned slaves) vs. an industrial economy built on science and technology. This shows up in debates over railroads (anti-trust laws start here). It leads to the financing of canals, and cars (more democratic forms of transportation). It leads to subsidies for single family homes vs multi family living. It leads to the constant struggle to break up AT&T and liquidate telecom equipment manufacturing (lucent had other problems). And yeah it leads to a desire to split up large companies that make good money for the country.

Of course a lot of processes also scale with size. With a decent welfare system this greater efficiency could also be tapped to achieve widespread prosperity.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#152

I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable. Look at what he did: > Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny s…

Agreed! Such a cool project.

Regarding the custom photolithography machine, I recall seeing some pictures of chip workers from the 70s that essentially did the same thing.

A group of women (I'm pretty sure it was all women) were responsible for manually drawing out (actually more like cutting out) the chip designs on these big sheets, which were then projected down to create the photoresist masks.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#153

Amazing! "Zeloof says he doesn’t know for sure what he wants to do after graduating this spring" - I hope we don't hear later that he went to work for FAANG. One the saddest things about Big Tech is how they take young talent away from innovative, potentially competing enterprises and into busy work internal projects just because they can.

So much talent gone to FAANG.

Also, where is my flying car?

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me it's not better on the other side. Followed my dreams and I'll forever be financially decades behind you (i.e I'll never catch up) unless I win the lottery or something. I'm 100% sure if I were in your shoes I too would feel exactly as you do. The lesson here is to be content with what we have and what we've done. At least now you have the financial freedom to spend the rest of your life more or less as you…

A long time ago, I had the mindset that I really didn't care about money: I wanted to live my "ideal" life, no matter what. So I frittered away my early twenties being a bum, trying to materialize what I felt was the "dream." Then I got kicked out of my home and had to work back-breaking jobs, commute 2-4 hours either walking or biking, and at the end of the day barely earn enough money to make any progress (I was lu…

I know this is a throwaway, but I would like to hear more. Your writing reflects my own life, but I'm in the wrestling part.

Care to expand on this process of cultivating values, the wrestling with the void, where the sense of goodness comes from..

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with you at first but then... > Because those that think that money is the only thing standing between them and meaningful achievement... well, no amount of money will change that for them What? Why couldn't they just be right? You yourself just said: > Not that long ago the vast majority of scientific progress originated from rich men doing it in their free time Is a person still not allowed to understand the…

I think what he is arguing is that someone with a negative attitude ("he can only do that because he's rich!") won't accomplish anything even if they were granted unlimited funding because they are focused on coming up with excuses instead of thinking about what they can do. There are plenty of poor people in third-world countries who have far less than the original commentator (who presumably lives in the first worl…

Put more bluntly than I was willing, but pretty much. I think this would be the case for the majority of the envious complaints, and the remainder would be a laughably unrealistic over-estimation of the power of money. As in: it doesn't suddenly make you smarter, more industrious, or gift you the ability to perform complex project management involving large organizations.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#156
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a story as old as time. When I was a kid growing up in the 1970s and 1980s and the school held science fairs, the kids whose parents were scientists and engineers had the coolest fair-winning projects while the rest of the kids made baking soda and vinegar volcanoes or lemon batteries.

I would have been ecstatic to even make a baking soda and vinegar volcano or lemon battery. The poor schools didn't have science fairs or anything like that. Uh, I was just reminded of something - when I was a kid (5th grade) I was gifted a book of science experiments for kids. I was only able to do maybe 1 experiment in the book because I didn't have access to any materials needed for the experiments. Those books sh…

My high school science teacher had high hopes for a science project and put me on the spot, after I mentioned something on a whim.

The materials alone would’ve cost hundreds of dollars which was unfathomable to me in the early 90s.

He didn’t realize I came from a poor family; but I was too embarrassed to say anything.

Anyway he was disappointed when I came up with a very mediocre (but super cheap) project; he mentioned later he would have paid for materials.

Being poor is limiting in so many ways.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#157

I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable. Look at what he did: > Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny s…

omg he could make it a business to buy these microscopes, fix and resell for 100k each

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#158
post #76
post #72

He could make a business out of that by replicating retro chips. Some chips are not easy to get and I bet vintage computing fans would pay enough so that a business in that area could be profitable.

Copyright might be a problem.

Clean room reverse engineering is pretty standard and legal.

It’s how IBM PC clones were legitimate back in the 1980s; and how AMD managed to stay on the legal side when taking on Intel.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#159

I'm more interested how he managed to master the knowledge of chip manufacturing plus a ton of electronics repairs (see his microscope and other equipment) at such an early age. Very admirable. Look at what he did: > Photolithography machines are expensive—up to $150 million—and so Zeloof made his own by bolting a modified conference room projector bought on Amazon onto a microscope. It projects his designs at tiny s…

He has support from his family.

Re: 22-year-old builds chips in his parents’ garage

#160

I've followed this project for a while. And while it truly is an impressive feat, I just wonder how did he afford all this equipment. I'm 24 and a physics PhD student, and just afforded my first soldering iron. I lack the space, let alone the equipment to attempt anything close to this. What a lucky, talented guy!

>I just wonder how did he afford all this equipment. Living in the US comes with certain advantages like some of the lowest consumer prices in the West including HW equipment being dirt cheap on the second hand market plus houses being big enough for space for such hobbies along with the biggest take home pays yielding some of the highest purchasing power in the West, a formula tough to replicate anywhere else. At le…

I believe everything you're saying!

But also, please understand that what he's accomplished here is monetarily out of the reach of your average American as well. Especially the average American teenager. The article notes that his dad is a very successful engineer, so roughly speaking he's almost certainly in the top 5-10%. Most homes do not have garages of this size and most garages are not climate controlled as this one is.

Additionally, his dad is an engineer. I grew up middle class, but my dad sold vegetables. Neither of my parents could do algebra, much less advanced stuff, so they weren't in a position financially or otherwise to help me start up a semiconductor fab in the garage. Not that I would have had the smarts or the drive to do that; I'm merely pointing out that this kid is at the intersection of talent and privilege.

In service of their "boy genius" narrative, the article glosses over how much parental monetary support this kid has had. To pick one example:

    One of Zeloof’s best finds was a broken electron microscope 
    that cost $250,000 in the early ’90s; he bought it for $1,000 
    and repaired it.
Very impressive, but thousands more were spent on plumbing, repairs of the unit, a giant electrical transformer to power the thing, etc. Shipping costs alone may have exceeded the cost of the unit, but he doesn't touch on that. You can see some of the details in his video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXio_jpc_Y

I remember in the 90's, my school turned down a free electron microscope for exactly that reason -- the cost of the unit itself is only the tip of the iceberg.

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