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How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

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Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#181
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Poland isn’t a communist country.

Neither are Hungary, Czech Republic, or Slovakia. This guy is just really confused I guess

They all were not very long ago. The pollution didn't happen overnight. Much of their polluting industry was built by the communists.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 70s, the oil companies were allegedly buying patents for 100mpg carburetors and locking them up so nobody could use them. I asked my dad (Air Force) about that, and he laughed. He said the military could desperately use such technology, as supplying fuel to the military machines was a terrible logistical problem. The military would never, ever let lil' ole' patent law get in the way of that.

I have no idea what you're trying to communicate. I reread your comment three times and I am still unsure.

It's a historical example of a fake patent moat.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600dpi A4 means roughly 5000×7000 (35,000,000 pixels). Even 300dpi is 2500×3500 (8,750,000 pixels). The current typical resolution for 10–13″ tablets (A4 is about 14.3″) is 1404×1872, which is 2,628,288 pixels. You’re asking for 13× as many pixels, and 3× as an entry level. However you arrange it, it’s going to use a lot more power and probably need more memory and a more powerful CPU/GPU.

Your math is correct, but the refresh rates are so low that I don’t see it being an issue. Not to mention that by the time said panel is available on the market CPUs and GPUs will be better. Call it 400 dpi? 450, maybe? It doesn’t seem too farfetched to me. Also, there's a huge difference in bandwidth requirements if the display is monochrome. Consider the framebuffer needed for a conventional 8-bit colour depth disp…

Pairing it with a low refresh rate is admitting defeat. There are already multiple products on the market with full-screen refresh beyond 30Hz; Dasung’s Paperlike is probably the best known, they don’t publish an actual figure but just say it’s almost as high as LCDs; I’ve found one place of no obvious credibility saying it’s about 40Hz. All this is with ghosting, of course. High quality rendering definitely takes longer, and I get the impression from my reading and observations of a real device that bandwidth may play a part in that speed limit.

Partial screen updates can go much faster than that; reMarkable 2’s total latency from marker to screen update is around 23ms if I recall correctly, and I suspect (without confirmation) that it’s updating the screen at 200Hz, the sample rate of the marker.

In theory, yes, you can go down to 1- or 4-bit colour (and at 600dpi I think going hard monochrome and depending on dithering would be quite acceptable), but in practice software stacks are rather attached to 24-bit and don’t tend to like going below 8-bit. Especially general-purpose stacks—if you build something yourself from the ground up (whatever that means), then sure, you can generally choose your own path. There are certainly paths that make better use of meagre resources, but experience says they’re seldom taken.

I think you’re probably underestimating how much power pushing that many pixels and that much screen bandwidth takes. Such a device is feasible (provided they can manufacture a large enough panel with a tiny enough dot pitch), but not straightforward, and will have some significant tradeoffs. I’m not surprised no one’s trying anything even close to it.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#184

E-ink is the coolest tech with the worst business practices. The availability of affordable e-ink tech is just not there. I understand the research-intensive nature of these displays, but the company itself has been holding back the e-ink market by just operating poorly in so many ways. My biggest worry is that they'll fold at some point, leaving all the e-ink patents in the hand of a troll that will hold tech back f…

out of curiosity, isn't that irrelevant since they can just get acquired if there was a big opportunity in using this technology in a product.

Amazon would get hit with antitrust faster than you could think it, and nobody else is big enough to be able to just make an offer they can't refuse.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#185
post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

Sharp Memory LCDs are close. They are active, but so close to being zero power you could keep them running with a stern glare. They have absurd contrast, can be updated at tens of hertz or faster, and are high resolution. They’re never made in large sizes, but you will see them on things like the Play Date.

It looks like they only have 8 colors?

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#186
post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

Have you seen Dasung's Paperlike 253 monitor? [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aUizYZNbAE

This looks like greyscale only, when I believe the squeeze in topic is high color displays (which are only mirasol, eink, and slurry AFAICT).

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a non-issue so far as I'm aware. The displays will last and function for years. Long enough that other components are generally long obsolete.

Obsolete, but still functional for their intended purpose. The screen will fail before the components get tin whiskers, if you use it often-ish. E ink readers will fail later because of a very low refresh rate, but as a screen monitor it may be a poor match. Pixel-Qi full sun display mode may be a better match for what most want.

That depends.

For anything networked, not having access to the latest and greatest ciphers, or CA certificates, eventually causes problems. It's possible that mobile formats won't be supported. And a decade or so out, what was once a generous provisioning of storage and memory will frequently come to seem small. Android-based devices such as the Onyx BOOX line probably won't be able to get newer OS updates even if the vendor was willing to support them as Android itself seems to have a moving hardware baseline (I'm typing this on ... an older Android device).

That said, the displays themselves should still function, yes.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#188
post #20

Every time an E Ink article is posted the patent defeatism is inevitable. I’m curious if there are other techniques to implement reflective(?) displays being explored that wouldn’t fall within the scope of E Ink’s defensible moat, or, if their parents are simply so broad as to stifle most hopes of accessible solutions and broader consumer/professional adoption. Frankly, I’m quite sick of straining my eyes and circadi…

Zikon http://www.zikon.com ClearInk https://clearinkdisplays.com

Zikon looks like it only makes low-color small screens.

Clearink 2.0 looks amazing but apparently it was sold to a Chinese company and they haven't had any public announcements since 2019.

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you're trying to communicate. I reread your comment three times and I am still unsure.

It's a historical example of a fake patent moat.

And how is it evidence in this case?

Re: How E Ink developed full-color e-paper

#190
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of evidence are you looking for? History of full of example of patents slowing the deployment to technology, the latest clear example is 3d Printing which really only became affordable to the home user, and abel to be hackable by people doing novel things with it after the patents expired I would assume the same thing would happen with eink

> What kind of evidence are you looking for? Normally, the person making a claim or allegation supplies some evidence. You know like if I accused Microsoft of using patents for holding back operating system development, then you as presumably a software expert would rightly ask me for evidence. Is my point somehow unclear? Commenters on HN repeatedly make this claim and if you look at my comment history, each time I…

So you are looking for active suppression. Aka law suits?

You deny a general chilling effect that patents have on the market overall? That people will, companies, and insterors will simply avoid patent encumbered technology

You simply refuse to acknowledge that generally accepted reality

//Sidenote. Stop asking me and others to look through your comment history. I am not going to do that. Make your points here and now

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