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iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

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Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#81

Post by pointyhat »

Akuma wrote: post #74
pointyhat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the OP: > Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom? Yes - more precisely they are working out new ways to charge you for it. We're slowly being led into paying incrementally for utility computing on a device we actually paid up front for. Only a fool buys something then pays to use it.

> Only a fool buys something then pays to use it. You mean like buying any of the following: * A car (fuel, tires, a bunch of other stuff) * _Any_ cellphone (either a monthly fee or pre paid) * Clothes (I sure hope you wash them?) * _Any_ electrical appliance (electric bill you know...) (and the list goes on...) Yeah. A fool indeed...

What you describe are "appliances". Single purpose items.

Computers, are by nature interchangeable with respect to their use at the whim of the user, without cost. They serve many purposes interchangably.

What I am concerned about is that a cost for changing purpose is being programmed (excuse the pun) into the users, converting them from users into consumers.

Consider the case of a Leatherman tool. Would you buy one if it had a couple of useless tools supplied with it and you found out when after you bought it that you have to buy all the good ones? Also the screwdriversr can only be used with Apple-licensed screws and you have to turn them the wrong way.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#82

Post by pessimizer »

snprbob86 wrote: post #31
mas644 wrote: post #8

It's not anti-Unix or anti-programmer...it's all about being anti-freedom. All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience. They want to turn your limitless and powerful computer into a home appliance...like a blender or electric razer. No way to customize, no way to modify, no way to organize thoughts your way. No hacking or "jailbreaking" into yo…

"All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience." Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom? No. There fucking isn't. I'm a huge believer in small, composable components. And I know that developing against closed platforms sucks . Being able to dig down into the source…

Yes, I do that there are a number of people at Apple spending a large part of their days figuring out how to prevent people from using their own purchased items in the way that they wish to. Lawyers, programmers, and PR people.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#83

Post by frou_dh »

danssig wrote: post #54
mas644 wrote: post #8

It's not anti-Unix or anti-programmer...it's all about being anti-freedom. All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience. They want to turn your limitless and powerful computer into a home appliance...like a blender or electric razer. No way to customize, no way to modify, no way to organize thoughts your way. No hacking or "jailbreaking" into yo…

How did tin-foil-hat-esque nut-jobbery get voted so high? I wanted an iPad precisely because it isn't a "limitless and powerful computer". I wanted a multipurpose appliance that requires minimal (idealy 0) maintenance. Newsflash for you: the whole world is not computer programmers (I am and I still don't want to have to think about this stuff when I'm just consuming). They never wanted to know . Which is why somethin…

I'm the same. I strongly prefer to only have to maintain one computer. I don't want or need more computers (in fact I got rid of a bunch). Augmenting it with appliance-like devices for additional needs is a pleasure.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#84

Post by scott_s »

pointyhat wrote: post #81
Akuma wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a fool buys something then pays to use it. You mean like buying any of the following: * A car (fuel, tires, a bunch of other stuff) * _Any_ cellphone (either a monthly fee or pre paid) * Clothes (I sure hope you wash them?) * _Any_ electrical appliance (electric bill you know...) (and the list goes on...) Yeah. A fool indeed...

What you describe are "appliances". Single purpose items. Computers, are by nature interchangeable with respect to their use at the whim of the user, without cost. They serve many purposes interchangably. What I am concerned about is that a cost for changing purpose is being programmed (excuse the pun) into the users, converting them from users into consumers. Consider the case of a Leatherman tool. Would you buy one…

The iPad is computer-as-appliance.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#85

Post by kijin »

potatolicious wrote: post #63
onosendai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the parent, or the article is saying. Don't turn this into some sort of class warfare for the sake of trolling. The ability of an OS or application to expose data in order to allow you to manipulate it as you see fit, does not preclude it being user-friendly and straighforward to use. That funcionality might very well be hidden away, but available if you're inclined to use it. The point that is being…

But it does. Or at least, it does in every way that we've yet to imagine. What the author of the article suggests would be not "anti-programmer" are necessarily "anti-user". Breaking everything down into composable components and forcing the user to compose even simple, everyday procedures before being able to use them? How terribly difficult and exclusive to techies only! Similarly, he suggests that the only way for…

> Breaking everything down into composable components and forcing the user to compose even simple, everyday procedures before being able to use them? How terribly difficult and exclusive to techies only!

Who said anything about "forcing" users? There's nothing wrong with exposing _both_ a set of composable components (for those who know how to use them, and perhaps hidden by default) _and_ a set of pre-composed apps (for the majority of users). Sure, it's not easy from a design standpoint, but where there is a will, there will be a way. Forcing users to rely exclusively on pre-composed apps is not the only alternative.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#86

Post by [deleted] »

Akuma wrote: post #74
pointyhat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the OP: > Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom? Yes - more precisely they are working out new ways to charge you for it. We're slowly being led into paying incrementally for utility computing on a device we actually paid up front for. Only a fool buys something then pays to use it.

> Only a fool buys something then pays to use it. You mean like buying any of the following: * A car (fuel, tires, a bunch of other stuff) * _Any_ cellphone (either a monthly fee or pre paid) * Clothes (I sure hope you wash them?) * _Any_ electrical appliance (electric bill you know...) (and the list goes on...) Yeah. A fool indeed...

[deleted]

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#87

Post by loup-vaillant »

rimantas wrote: post #40
mas644 wrote: post #8

It's not anti-Unix or anti-programmer...it's all about being anti-freedom. All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience. They want to turn your limitless and powerful computer into a home appliance...like a blender or electric razer. No way to customize, no way to modify, no way to organize thoughts your way. No hacking or "jailbreaking" into yo…

And why exactly my tablet should be different from razor or blender? Or my TV or my car? For many this is just a tool, not goal. lack of will by the masses to understand their technology There are many many many more fields besides IT. If anyone: be it waitress or accountant will be required to understand IT it will not end well. They want you to be dumber. No. I don't feel any dumber because I don't know how to fix…

Do not say "this is just a tool", it never helps. Besides, computer happen to be different in kind: they can do anything you tell them to. This is as close to a genie in a bottle as you will ever get. It wouldn't feel right to deprive most people of this little genie, don't you think?

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#88

Post by glhaynes »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #76
cageface wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of the people here decrying iOS as a radical loss of freedom would be willing to learn how the engine of their car works in order to drive it, or how all the machinery in a dentist's office works in order to get a checkup. We live in an age of specialization and iOS just represents a far less leaky abstraction for the average user than the operating systems of the past.

I'm not anti-iOS, I'm anti-all current mobile OSes. I think you present a false dichotomy. I shouldn't have to know how the engine in my car works, but I should have the option of tinkering with it if I wish. And I do expect my car to be componentized. I expect it to have a transmission, an alternator, a radiator, etc. While I have no preferences for how those components are designed, I expect them to work, on the wh…

In the theory that comes from a cursory glance, someone could make an OS that's portable, composable, open, free, changeable and tinkerable, etc. and that's easier to use than any system that's available today. That'd be great.

But in practice, as systems exhibit more of those traits more strongly, they, as a general rule, become less and less of a coherent, unified whole and more of the internal workings become exposed to the user. This has a direct impact on usability.

Until somebody resolves this seemingly-fundamental engineering constraint, we'll have to settle for different systems that varyingly trade-off flexibility and usability. iOS has been so successful because Apple has deliberately chosen to fall more on the usability side and a tremendous number of users have found that the tradeoff is worth it: that decreased flexibility doesn't harm them remotely as much as poorer usability would. Happily, there are also extremely flexible systems available.

Looks to me like this setup allows everybody to win as much as we know how to in this "imperfect world".

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#89

Post by naveengarg »

Have you seen http://schemes.zwapp.com/.json?page=1 There is the beginning of some hope: http://gigaom.com/2011/06/09/zwapp-builds-a-social-network-f... its a database of all the apps that use custom url schemes.

You can also use javascript bookmarklets to compose with any webapp (webpage).

Hopefully one day apple will expose a framework that will allow users to do in app user level scripting for all apps. And maybe even allow cross app scripting with very well declared uses by responsible / licensed people.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#90

Post by loup-vaillant »

potatolicious wrote: post #63
onosendai wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the parent, or the article is saying. Don't turn this into some sort of class warfare for the sake of trolling. The ability of an OS or application to expose data in order to allow you to manipulate it as you see fit, does not preclude it being user-friendly and straighforward to use. That funcionality might very well be hidden away, but available if you're inclined to use it. The point that is being…

But it does. Or at least, it does in every way that we've yet to imagine. What the author of the article suggests would be not "anti-programmer" are necessarily "anti-user". Breaking everything down into composable components and forcing the user to compose even simple, everyday procedures before being able to use them? How terribly difficult and exclusive to techies only! Similarly, he suggests that the only way for…

Could you tell us how the App Store exclusivity significantly enhance usability? Apple already controls the native API and the core apps, how can they need more? Do they really need to ban poor apps? Do they really need the censorship?

Usability can't explain all the control. There are other reasons.

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