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How trust undermines science

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Re: How trust undermines science

#21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should even respect flat earthers You lost me here. Basic literacy is a requirement for any fruitful debate

Literacy does not imply believing in the round earth. Proving the earth is round to yourself without trusting outside influences is not a trivial pursuit.

Take your next vacation at the sea, watch ships approaching the Harbour not just growing in size but also appearing to rise up from the water. Voilà

Re: How trust undermines science

#22
post #6

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers You lost me here. Basic literacy is a requirement for any fruitful debate

It's a rather enlightening exercise to work out how and why the earth is curved purely from the perspective of a human able to see maybe a small patch.

This is directly analogous to how general relativity models spacetime as being intrinsically curved, and you need to be able to do the same sort of thinking without being able to immerse the manifold in a higher dimensional space.

So it's not exactly stupid to pretend to be naive.

Also, why and by how much is the sun bigger than the moon? How far are they away from earth? We've known for thousands of years. It's not exactly obvious to derive this purely from geometry.

Re: How trust undermines science

#23

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers No those people need mental healthcare. They have a very debilitating dysfunction, an inability to see reality.

No post body was provided.

Re: How trust undermines science

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting thought exercise to take some belief and ask yourself how you know, and asking until you get to some first principles or axioms or articles of faith. Part of that exercise could include coming up with plausible alternate explanations for what you perceive. Flat earth is just a ridiculous version of such a thought experiment. It's a good exercise to make sure your understanding of the world around…

I actually love flat earthers BECAUSE it forces me to actually think about how "I Know" the world is round. I bet a majority of people who are anti-flat earthers could not actually "prove" the earth is round without immediately appealing to authority. I've talked to flat earthers, (both probably real and some probably trolling), and it can be a fun intellectual exercise to debate.

You are allowed to appeal to authority. The "Argument from Authority" fallacy only applies when you appeal to a false authority, such as listening to your yoga instructor's opinions on vaccination.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Re: How trust undermines science

#25
post #6

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers You lost me here. Basic literacy is a requirement for any fruitful debate

You're saying you should only respect literate people. I say all people are fundamentally worthy of respect.

Re: How trust undermines science

#26
post #6

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers You lost me here. Basic literacy is a requirement for any fruitful debate

No post body was provided.

Re: How trust undermines science

#27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literacy does not imply believing in the round earth. Proving the earth is round to yourself without trusting outside influences is not a trivial pursuit.

Take your next vacation at the sea, watch ships approaching the Harbour not just growing in size but also appearing to rise up from the water. Voilà

If you drop water onto a flat sheet of glass, surface tension will give its surface a lenticular shape.

Re: How trust undermines science

#28
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should even respect flat earthers You lost me here. Basic literacy is a requirement for any fruitful debate

You're saying you should only respect literate people. I say all people are fundamentally worthy of respect.

Why? Why shouldn't respect be earned?

Re: How trust undermines science

#29

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers No those people need mental healthcare. They have a very debilitating dysfunction, an inability to see reality.

Those people are obviously less smart and educated than any rational man who seriously pondered whether the Earth's flat and could be bothered to do a couple of simple experiments.

But at the same time they're step ahead of majority of the population that just believed what they were told as kids and never, once in their life, expressed any doubt in it, or thought about how it was proven, or how they would be able to check that proof themselves.

Re: How trust undermines science

#30

We should respect people questioning science as long as they are doing it in good faith and are showing willingness to learn. We should even respect flat earthers and climate change deniers. They improve rigour and identify blindspots.

> We should even respect flat earthers No those people need mental healthcare. They have a very debilitating dysfunction, an inability to see reality.

I think this is closer to the truth.

I'm struggling to find it, but an article I read and found enlightening explained how there was seemingly a uniform struggle with education in every story the author was told by the people she talked to at a flat earther's convention.

They all had some profoundly negative encounter with the education establishment, and usually as a result of a learning disability that they had.

It's anecdotal and not a complete view, but a mistrust of academia seems requisite for many of these conspiracies to take root in a person's mind, and that seems pathologic to me.

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