141–150 of 166 posts
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Many, with the benefit of a prosperous economy and stable polity.
Are there any studies out there that link UBI and prosperous economy?
A reasonable overview: https://econreview.berkeley.edu/unboxing-universal-basic-inc...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many, with the benefit of a prosperous economy and stable polity.
I'm not interested to pay 15k in taxes to receive 5k back as UBI, regardless of economy or stability. How much you plan to pay in taxes to support my UBI?
I expect to pay and continue paying a lot, yet the benefit is more than what I pay in taxes. What's better is that our current UBI is quite a bit above zero already, but the distribution is fraught with large costs in time. Re-organizing and streamlining UBI distribution would result in significant cost improvements to the current US welfare approach, and improve its impact.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not interested to pay 15k in taxes to receive 5k back as UBI, regardless of economy or stability. How much you plan to pay in taxes to support my UBI?
> regardless of economy or stability. So you're saying that you're a poor economist, then.
Economics is not a science like physics. We can't do controlled experiments, we can't falsify hypothesis. This leads to very muddy waters and what you are left with are two kinds of economists: Those who tell people what they want to hear and those nobody listens to. Econometrics gives people everything they want to hear, and with a scientific veneer as a bonus. The HN crowd should however appreciate how susceptible…
Economics is not a science like physics. We can't do controlled experiments, we can't falsify hypothesis. This leads to very muddy waters and what you are left with are two kinds of economists: Those who tell people what they want to hear and those nobody listens to. Econometrics gives people everything they want to hear, and with a scientific veneer as a bonus. The HN crowd should however appreciate how susceptible…
I've always understood the parable of the broken window to be about opportunity costs. I don't see how it was a warning about metrics.
The seen/measurable: employment in the production of windows. The unseen/unmeasurable: missing employment in the production of suits.
Economics is not a science like physics. We can't do controlled experiments, we can't falsify hypothesis. This leads to very muddy waters and what you are left with are two kinds of economists: Those who tell people what they want to hear and those nobody listens to. Econometrics gives people everything they want to hear, and with a scientific veneer as a bonus. The HN crowd should however appreciate how susceptible…
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> Economics is not a science like physics. It's not that economics can't be a science like physics. It's that (most) economists don't treat it like a science.
I think the problem is that economics needs to take human behavior into account, which it tries to do via game theory, which in turn relies on rational actors. I don't think individual human behavior is predictable like that. You could argue that we don't need to model individuals, only large groups of people. But the problem is that often the behavior of some individuals has a huge effect on large groups. Contrast t…
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I'm not interested to pay 15k in taxes to receive 5k back as UBI, regardless of economy or stability. How much you plan to pay in taxes to support my UBI?
I'm not interested in what you claim to pay in taxes. UBI benefits aren't solely to a person's bank account; the benefits include a prosperous economy and stable political environment their bank operates in. I expect to pay and continue paying a lot, yet the benefit is more than what I pay in taxes. What's better is that our current UBI is quite a bit above zero already, but the distribution is fraught with large cos…
Can you back your claim with facts? UBI is universal, not magic.
> I expect to pay and continue paying a lot,
Just say a number, so we will put it into formula to see is your expected taxation will match minimum requirement for UBI.
Typical wealth distribution without UBI:
^
|
|
| *
| * *
| * *
| * *
| * *
|* * * *
+------------------------------------------------>
^ - number of people, > - income
^ *
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| *
| *
| *
| *
| * * *
+--U------------------------------------------->
^ - number of people, > - income, U - UBI level
As you see, UBI erases middle class. Everyone becomes poor, except some rich.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not interested in what you claim to pay in taxes. UBI benefits aren't solely to a person's bank account; the benefits include a prosperous economy and stable political environment their bank operates in. I expect to pay and continue paying a lot, yet the benefit is more than what I pay in taxes. What's better is that our current UBI is quite a bit above zero already, but the distribution is fraught with large cos…
> the benefits include a prosperous economy and stable political environment their bank operates in. Can you back your claim with facts? UBI is universal, not magic. > I expect to pay and continue paying a lot, Just say a number, so we will put it into formula to see is your expected taxation will match minimum requirement for UBI. Typical wealth distribution without UBI: ^ | | | * | * * | * * | * * | * * |* * * * +-…
The US already has a non-zero UBI[1], it's simply inefficiently distributed via the negative income tax rate and various welfare efforts. That's a clear first area to fix things up. Then, if we need to increase the historically low tax rates on high income households or implement capital tax rates on the wealth, increases in taxes can be considered.
Further, from a theoretical perspective, the economy is not zero-sum. A rising tide lifts all boats; if less money has to be doled out to industries supporting enforced poverty, such as private jail systems among others, then there is more money in the economy for utilization for many things (including but not limited to UBI). General equilibrium effects often have counterintuitive effects, such as they are.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_in_the_...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the benefits include a prosperous economy and stable political environment their bank operates in. Can you back your claim with facts? UBI is universal, not magic. > I expect to pay and continue paying a lot, Just say a number, so we will put it into formula to see is your expected taxation will match minimum requirement for UBI. Typical wealth distribution without UBI: ^ | | | * | * * | * * | * * | * * |* * * * +-…
While I appreciate the great efforts to put hand-waving FUD via terminal histogram graphics for insertion into comments[0] (seriously, great job!), your point that the middle class is guaranteed to implode is nonsensical. The US already has a non-zero UBI[1], it's simply inefficiently distributed via the negative income tax rate and various welfare efforts. That's a clear first area to fix things up. Then, if we need…