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Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

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191–200 of 245 posts

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#191

> As it stands, lax customs enforcement — along with spotty infrastructure and the prevalence of cheap Asian imports — has made it difficult for Africa to develop a garment industry of its own. Local producers are great, but they're outnumbered ten thousand to one by local consumers. How the world would be any better if some of the world's poorest were forced by their governments to pay extra money to buy inferior cl…

>Local producers are great, but they're outnumbered ten thousand to one by local consumers. How the world would be any better if some of the world's poorest were forced by their governments to pay extra money to buy inferior clothes, while some small-time politically-connected tycoon profited from it? Employees of local producers are great too, the theory I always hear is that people getting paid in an area stimulate…

> Employees of local producers are great too, the theory I always hear is that people getting paid in an area stimulate more economic activity. So I mean you should take that idea apart more as it is pretty much established wisdom.

The "established wisdom" you cite is a long-lived natural propaganda campaign. It begins with politicians, people who succeed or fail based mostly on their image, not on the quality of their governance. Why would they do the hard work seeking out the causes of prosperity, help organize that prosperity, and seek ways that collective action can make things better? That's a sucker's game. If you rip off the population at large — just a little bit at a time, mind you — then you gain political allies in the industry who benefits. Of course they'll market you as the champion of prosperity: you've made their success possible. It's not strictly cynical; it's quite easy to believe, if you're not the person paying for it, and motivated reasoning is strong. It's a win/win deal, because you ignore the people who actually pay for things. Welcome to public-choice theory. It likely won't ever change. Hooray!

It should be painfully obvious to anyone who thinks about the facts of the matter that having access to nearly-free clothes — not the obnoxious piles of waste or anything, just the bales of clothing the article laments being imported into South Africa — having access is strictly better than not having this access. These people, after all, are always free to buy different clothes. It's not hard: Americans have access to similar, and can buy stupidly cheap clothes at an American thrift store, but in practice, they mostly don't even look at such an establishment. So why don't the people of South Africa buy locally made clothes right now? Because given their income, they much prefer the nearly-free clothes.

Common sense does work here! As an individual, you don't become prosperous by looking for ways to do things that are more expensive. As a society, the same principle applies. Yes, yes, someone will conjure many promises: if everyone just spends more money, we'll have more money! But you know, if you spend less money on clothes you can spend more money on literally anything else which you'd rather have. It's like a perpetual motion machine: the energy does actually come from somewhere, you just might not be looking at it. The prosperity they propose society will gain from protecting garment industry is stolen from everyone who buys clothes, and everything that they would have bought instead, and you lose some of the prosperity in the process, because you expend effort and capital and materials.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#192
post #54

I don't give two damns about fashion, but I would like good long-lasting clothing. Any suggestions on where I can find that (once my current stock wears out)?

LL Bean used to always have super high quality products - stuff you could buy and wear for years, even decades. Sadly, now that they no longer offer warranties like they used to, the quality has decreased greatly.

I am on my second pair of LL Bean boots - first pair I used for 20 years before they cracked and started leaking - second pair I bought - after the warranty changed, broke the first day (loops on the back that you use to pull them up ripped off: 1 the first day, 2nd one a week later - and a few weeks after that, the laces-holes also ripped - this is for a $200 pair of boots.

Seems nobody can make money selling quality stuff anymore - it's all a race to the bottom.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#193
post #49

> Today, the average American buys 68 new items of clothing per year. > “You wonder, do people in America have so much money that they can just wear things once and then throw them away?” I uh… I too would like to know. What scares me is that the use of whatever demographic is causing that average has to be way higher than the actual average, but this feels like it has to be bimodal. And there are lots of these numbe…

Living with my girlfriend really opened my eyes to how many clothes women go through. She even tries to be responsible about it and sell items to second hand markets, but I still think it’s a bit crazy. - Women’s fashion cycles much faster then men’s. Office wear is a bit more stable but anything aimed as social settings like weddings may only provide a few opportunities to wear it before it’s out of style. Men can r…

My teenage daughter, whose fashion sense runs to the eclectic, gets basically all of her clothing second-hand online. She also wears a number of my old Hawaiian shirts that are still going strong after nearly 40 years of (admittedly occasional) use. So it is possible to source responsibly, but it helps if you don't set too much store by the judgements of the hoi polloi.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#194
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine they are counting everything, e.g. counting each sock as a separate item of clothing. Otherwise, there is no way the AVERAGE is 68 items per year.

Likely does include socks and underwear but the median is probably lower than the avenger age. I’m guessing this is a skewed distribution.

Now thinking about it, children—especially newborns and toddlers—go through clothes fast. They must be skewing the distribution.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#196
post #34

Sounds a lot like clothing is now “post scarcity”. I’d have thought that was a positive thing but from the articles moral panicky tone, I guess it’s just another thing we need to feel guilty about.

> Sounds a lot like clothing is now “post scarcity”.

Only a tiny step further along the path towards post scarcity. One of the parts of post scarcity that is rarely covered are the full ramifications of increasing mastery over matter and energy. Trash is a civilization's admission its technology and science haven't yet mastered how to use low embedded energy, the same way money implies poverty (h/t Iain M. Banks).

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#197
post #54

I don't give two damns about fashion, but I would like good long-lasting clothing. Any suggestions on where I can find that (once my current stock wears out)?

I've been trying to emphasize natural fabrics and tossing out stuff that doesn't fit, so I've been buying:

Pendleton - Amazing wool shirts, and their cotton stuff is very solid. They still sell all-wool sweaters, which is becoming rare even at the high end. Sometimes eBay/poshmark have nice older USA-made pieces but sizing can be a crapshoot.

Brooks Brothers - Reliable for well-made warm-weather linens and cottons, pretty sure that remains so post-bankruptcy. Style choices run from 'Weekend Lawyer' to 'Insolent Schoolboy.'

American Giant - All-cotton tshirts and hoodies. Haven't tried their pants.

Woolrich - Good sweaters and heavy shirts. My first sweater from the now-shuttered PA factory has survived 30 years with spells of very rough traveling and outdoor work without holes.

Bemidji Woolen Mills - Wool Mackinaws and barn jackets do well in most situations where waterproofing isn't required.

Arc'teryx - The Canadian-made Gore-Tex stuff is very durable. Overseas-made no slouch either. I believe Gore is making serious progress in shedding fewer microplastics.

Double Pump - I think this is a captive Amazon brand? Durable and inexpensive cotton cowboy snap work shirts, the only ones I've found that are not synthetic blend. Ely Cattleman has a line of 97% cotton shirts but most are awfully rodeo-y.

LL Bean - Still make good casual and lined winter pants, but they're going downhill fast in nearly every other category. Will market something as 'wool' when it's 95% synthetic.

Eddie Bauer - See LL Bean, maybe with better shirt choices.

Smartwool/Meriwool - Base layers are magic, both brands seem indestructible. Smartwool socks are nice for all but the hottest weather. Meriwool is more likely to be all-wool. Runner-up goes to Peoplesocks brand.

Oh and the key to laundering all of these natural fabrics? Wash as cold delicates, dryer cycle with no heat for wrinkles, hang dry near a dehumidifier.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#198
post #192
post #54

I don't give two damns about fashion, but I would like good long-lasting clothing. Any suggestions on where I can find that (once my current stock wears out)?

LL Bean used to always have super high quality products - stuff you could buy and wear for years, even decades. Sadly, now that they no longer offer warranties like they used to, the quality has decreased greatly. I am on my second pair of LL Bean boots - first pair I used for 20 years before they cracked and started leaking - second pair I bought - after the warranty changed, broke the first day (loops on the back t…

Salomon shoes and boots can take a serious beating.

Red Wings if you want heavier.

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#199

I have started buying clothes from USA _because_ they are of higher quality. Even though they are made in my India, they are usually not available for sale here. The quality and variety available for exports is drastically different from what is available for the local market. Mine have lasted at least 2-3 years before I buy a new set of clothes. I wonder why there is a huge churn in USA to keep buying new clothes. I…

Having had my sleep interrupted by a toddler bed wetting situation, I just spent 2 hours typing a novel about the human condition on my phone rather than sleeping, and then slipped and accidently swiped "refresh". Long story short, the reason why Americans buy excessive amounts of consumer goods is because they can and have for 3 or 4 generations and it's culturally normal. There's fleeting happiness from the small r…

> I don't throw things away without some premeditation, because I bought it with some premeditation.

I like this. Lately I've been thinking about what I own. I've come to the conclusion that if I'm going to own something, I want it to be good, and I want to have made a deliberate decision to own it. But I also have a bit of a minimalist side to me and can't stand clutter, so to me the decision to buy something is a big one, because I feel like I need to consider the whole lifecycle of that object first (Where will I keep it? Can I easily bring it with me? And how will I eventually dispose of it?).

Re: Many clothing donations end up in African landfills

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a woman does that, she will very often get judged by her peers. True. We all reach an age eventually where we care little for the opinions of our peers on such matters. Wisest are those who make that realisation earlier rather than later!

That would limit career prospects in many fields.

It’s definitely true. I’m basically a T shirt and shorts guy and my son once told me it is a “flex”. I was surprised, and it really opened my eyes.
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