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On Leaving Facebook

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Re: On Leaving Facebook

#311

Post by thematrixturtle »

tippytippytango wrote: post #173
Aperocky wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At Facebook I could get by barely working a few hours a day. But the job was so unsatisfying This is a little too first world. if the work were too sparse and wants more work, why not join interview loops or take classes/training, attend talks? Does Meta not have those options? The frustration feels almost artificial, if one does not want to get more work, then maybe just go boating or mountain biking. Watch some s…

It doesn't work like that. You have to be "on" even if you aren't working. That means you feel like you can't commit to anything substantial since you feel like you should be working. Fucking off on the internet is a coping mechanism to numb the pain of being in this limbo where you aren't working; but, feel like you should be working because you are getting paid a lot. In retrospect it's easy to see that there's thi…

Bingo. Working from home also exacerbates this, since there is no longer a physical division between "work" and "home", plus there is virtually no social pressure not to slack off.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#312

Post by fermentation »

rsynnott wrote: post #57
dahdum wrote: post #22

I didn’t see retirement addressed, that would be among my top priorities personally. Unless he’s already financially independent and can retire at will, taking a 30% paycut off FB’s top 5% comp could mean delaying retirement by many years. Given fixed living costs, retirement savings could easily drop by much more than 30%. I’m not disagreeing with his choice, it’s a personal one and he may not want early retirement,…

I find it kind of fascinating how into the idea of early retirement many people on this site are. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with it as such, but… I don’t really get it. I don’t think I actually know anyone who has early-retired. What would you do with yourself? Is it not better to work for a longer time at a job you like than a shorter time at a higher paying one that you dislike?

It's less about actually retiring and more about not working for "the man". I know of a couple of folks who have retired in their 30s to open up coffee shops or make games.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#313

Post by cwalv »

jruroc wrote: post #196
zionic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: if you can avoid it keep FAANG off your resume. I’ve always made sure to hit top-tier pay and a FAANG entry on your CV is an instant disqualification.

The overwhelming majority of companies hiring SWE's do not think this way.

And they won't mention the company they work for, so even if you want to go for the one in existence that does you'll never find it. Or maybe there is no such company, and we're just being trolled.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#314

Post by zionic »

throwawai2021 wrote: post #297
zionic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not going to stain your CV. Not with that attitude. I refuse to hire anyone with FAANG on their resume and you can all do it too. Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes, and I’d love for more of you to join me. To the rest of you: Sure, take that $300k total comp bro. Good luck working outsid…

Total comp at FAANG for a senior engineer who's been there a few years is more like $800k+.

If true, that just makes it worse in my opinion.

Although maybe it’s evidence in my favor? They have to pay people that much to keep doing what they know is wrong…

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#315

Post by vanusa »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #295
vanusa wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like you gradually come to a realization that your time in this world is extremely, extremely precious. And that you just don't particularly see a need to cater to other people's made up (and sometimes downright farcical) rituals to such an excessive degree. No matter how much money they may dangle in front of you.

> More like you gradually come to a realization that your time in this world is extremely, extremely precious. > And that you just don't particularly see a need to cater to other people's made up (and sometimes downright farcical) rituals to such an excessive degree. > No matter how much money they may dangle in front of you. I confess to not understanding this take, money can purchase back a substantial portion of t…

I'd say it's a combination of factors, based on:

(1) Most chiefly, the egregiously unethical behavior of nearly all of the "big" players (the rest being merely moderately unethical)

(2) Reports from close friends of the day-to-day grind at these places (literally none have anything more than superficially positive to say about it; some have suffered significant health problems, include one full-scale nervous breakdown)

(3) And the intellectual dishonesty implicit in the LC process also, but only as icing on the cake, as it were.

And independent of all that - it is by no means a binary (either you work or for big tech, or you grind along at for an extra decade or two at middle range). There are high-paying opportunities out there, if that's what you're out for -- they just aren't as immediately obvious to find as FAANG.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#316

Post by quickthrower2 »

ravenstine wrote: post #307
tippytippytango wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work like that. You have to be "on" even if you aren't working. That means you feel like you can't commit to anything substantial since you feel like you should be working. Fucking off on the internet is a coping mechanism to numb the pain of being in this limbo where you aren't working; but, feel like you should be working because you are getting paid a lot. In retrospect it's easy to see that there's thi…

And even if you can manage to find things to do to occupy the time and appear busy, you'll be lucky if management considers the importance of your work and schedule it with the rest of your workload. One too many times have I had to find something to do and spend weeks or months on that thing only to have management tell me to immediately stop working on it even though that thing was actually important. This may not…

Ideally the thing you spend time on should be something you can use outside the org. E.g. learn k8s.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#317

Post by em500 »

vanusa wrote: post #212
gzer0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the sheer number of fradulent and stuffed credentials people have begun using, and applying, en masse to job positions. To be clear, I dislike the current way interviewing is, but do you have a better solution to screen out 7,000 applicants? The vast majority will be knocked out by the leetcode style interview, and sure, some brilliant minds might fail because they can't remember linked lists in the mome…

from 7,000 -> 70 Do you have any hard data behind that ratio? Or are you just kind of ... making those numbers up? Because they, you know, "feel right"?

Google receives about 3 million applications per year, and hires less than 1% of them. Not all of them for dev positions, but still probably at least a million. Google is probably the most popular, but even the maligned Facebook gets a few hundred thousand applications per year.

I concur with the parent's point. HN is perpetually complaining about tech interviews, but nobody ever suggests a viable alternative that can cope with such application volumes.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/17/heres-how-many-google-job-in...

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#318

Post by zionic »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #289
zionic wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. What I mean by top-tier pay is essentially paying well above average to fewer, higher quality people. I’d rather have 2-3 expert engineers making 2x pay than 10 mediocre engineers making 1x pay. There is a sweet spot where you can scale with one expert in each domain, and if that “expert” is well compensated they can replace an entire engineering dept.

What's the ballpark of 1x pay in this example?

1x would be 1x market rate IMO.

Let’s say your skill is worth $125k avg.

I’m not exactly interested in the people who can be that, and there’s a lot of them. I want the people who can make me feel like $250k is a steal etc.

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#319

Post by cwalv »

debt wrote: post #29
pkdpic wrote: post #11

Glad to see this was about working at FB / Meta rather than being a user. Just for personal interest. Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. Wondering if I should be trying for FaceBook as long as Im bothering to study. Had a very positive-feeling convo with a recruiter there ~6mo ago before "Meta". Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Any thoughts?

Yes absolutely go work at Meta. The person in the post had worked there for ten years; they’re likely a millionaire. It’s very challenging, but you should definitely get in and try it yourself. Move to the Bay if you haven’t done so yet, it will keep your motivation up.

> they’re likely a millionaire.

Almost certainly; if not, it's not because they didn't make enough to be one. Of course, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns."

Re: On Leaving Facebook

#320

Post by hokumguru »

bmitc wrote: post #204
sockgrant wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about someone being hired that couldn’t write simple code. It’s easy to study leet code, and it’s relevant because it shows the interviewer you can write code. I’ve had non-leet code interviews, like write some feature in 60minutes. It was fine. It tests code and knowledge as opposed to just algorithms and tricks. I dunno I’ve always felt that the people who can’t leet code are the…

> It’s easy to study leet code, and it’s relevant because it shows the interviewer you can write code. I have a million things I want to learn about. If a potential employer would rather I spend time on what amounts to trivia, then great, I don’t want to work there. > I’ve had non-leet code interviews, like write some feature in 60minutes. This is also a problem because it’s impossible to understand the constraints,…

At this point, the leetcode interviews are as much of a behavior interview as they are a technical one, no? It makes sense that they're only hiring candidates willing to spend the time and effort studying.
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