Live data from Hacker News

How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

erichgrunewald.com

61–70 of 148 posts

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#61
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Been smoking 20 years, still no lung cancer!" You're only 30. Give it 10 years. Not being snarky, the damage is being done, you're just not at that point yet. 38, been programming since the same age and I'm starting to feel it. Change your habits now and start focusing on ergonomics.

I'm 49, typing for 39 years, nothing yet. Anecdotes don't really help though.

I'm 59. Been programming most days/week since 1980 or so. And I play the piano 2+ hours/day. No RSI.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#62
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting. I guess I never really thought about it, but on dvorak `ls` is a double tap with the right pinky, and it’s often immediately followed by [enter] with the same pinky… I type that key sequence a lot

Highly recommend you look into keyboards that have "Enter" and "Backspace" reachable by thumb/index fingers. I've been dailying a TECK for nearly a decade, and it's helped immensely with RSI. Their new Clevo keyboard is a bit different, so can't vouch for it, but my SO likes it so far as first foray into ergo keyboards: https://trulyergonomic.com/

I used some generation of Truly Ergonomic for a few years and it started getting repeating/missing characters... at $250 it was too big of an expense for me to rebuy. While it worked though, I was very happy with it

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 49, typing for 39 years, nothing yet. Anecdotes don't really help though.

I'm 59. Been programming most days/week since 1980 or so. And I play the piano 2+ hours/day. No RSI.

Maybe there's more to RSI than, you know, typing per se.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#64
What the author may be missing is that keyboards are much, much better now than they were in the 1990s, when RMS was having problems. The touch is much lighter, the amount of force needed to depress the keys is much less. Hitting control-alt-meta-cokebottle-Q for everything to make Emacs work on an early 90s keyboard was a recipe for pain.

I've been typing on computers for almost as long as RMS has, don't have those problems.

I guess I should mention that I have my own self-taught touch typing style. I only use eight fingers, except for using my left pinky finger for the shift key. Works for me.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#65
post #33

Tbh, typing speed doesn't matter much to me: I still need to think, which usually takes much more time than converting those thoughts into keystrokes.

One place where typing speed does impact other people is synchronous messaging, like Slack. If you're asking someone for help, you're requesting their attention. It's better if you can type with sufficient speed to give plenty of information/context as to what you're talking about.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#66
The bigger problem is not the layout it’s the keyboard itself, if you have rsi switching to an ergodox can improve the situation, if this is not enough something like a dactyl manuform or a kinesis advantage 360 should do the trick. This combined with light switches like tactile (MX brown) or linear (red) will reduce your pain immensely.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly recommend you look into keyboards that have "Enter" and "Backspace" reachable by thumb/index fingers. I've been dailying a TECK for nearly a decade, and it's helped immensely with RSI. Their new Clevo keyboard is a bit different, so can't vouch for it, but my SO likes it so far as first foray into ergo keyboards: https://trulyergonomic.com/

I used some generation of Truly Ergonomic for a few years and it started getting repeating/missing characters... at $250 it was too big of an expense for me to rebuy. While it worked though, I was very happy with it

My impression was that they used some slightly chattery Cherry MX keyswitches combined with a controller with a poor debounce routine. (The electrical output of many switches "bounces" quickly on and off a few times when changing states. This can cause dropped or doubled key presses if not accounted for by the keyboard controller.) I’m not sure if the batches of Cherry MX switches they had were bad, or if some amount of chatter is inevitable given the switch design.

From their marketing it looks like they have changed to (Kailh-made?) switches that use a light sensor instead of an electrical contact. https://trulyergonomic.com/ergonomic-keyboards/best-truly-er...

I guess that’s one alternative to implementing a better debounce routine.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#68

> One week or so ago I switched from Colemak to typing on QWYRFM due to the reduced load it places on the pinkies. I typed Dvorak for 10 years before I started getting RSI again in my right ulna. It turns out that the 'S' key being hit by the pinky in Dvorak caused me a lot of pain. I ended up switching to BEAKL, a pretty obscure layout which is specifically made to alleviate stress on the pinky. It moves the relativ…

I just use query, but I only type with 3 fingers on each hand and move my hand if I need to. I've always felt holding my hands rigidly over the keyboard was going to give me rsi no matter what the layout.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#69

Personal anecdote, but I know a few people who got RSI/CTS and had a chance to watch them type --- and what they all had in common was how "stiff" their typing posture was, and the strength at which they hit the keys. They weren't fast either, probably in the 50-70wpm range. One of them, before he got RSI, even commented on how bad my posture was and how it'd "make it easier to injure myself". I find that relaxing, a…

Much like a virtuoso pianist really. Tension is the number one enemy for a pianist. It leads to injuries and more importantly, bad music.

This is a nice video of some elite level relaxed hands: https://youtu.be/Ray6knVCsp8?t=115

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#70
post #69

Personal anecdote, but I know a few people who got RSI/CTS and had a chance to watch them type --- and what they all had in common was how "stiff" their typing posture was, and the strength at which they hit the keys. They weren't fast either, probably in the 50-70wpm range. One of them, before he got RSI, even commented on how bad my posture was and how it'd "make it easier to injure myself". I find that relaxing, a…

Much like a virtuoso pianist really. Tension is the number one enemy for a pianist. It leads to injuries and more importantly, bad music. This is a nice video of some elite level relaxed hands: https://youtu.be/Ray6knVCsp8?t=115

I am a pianist and have spent years trying to eliminate tension. It's a lifelong effort! But so worth it.

I recently saw a video of a concerto by cellist Bruno Philippe and was astonished to see how loosely he appeared to be holding the bow. It almost appeared that it would slip at any moment. Yet he was in total control and his tone was perfect!

Post reply on HN