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How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

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Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#181

Two questions. 1. Why not the .md URL for everybody? 2. Is this really a problem with Zoom or one with Wayland and the Linux distros? I mean Fedora switched to Wayland in 2016 and the screensharing API was added only in 2018. A rushed deployment? Then maybe the Wayland team should make a list of the applications that must absolutely work with Wayland and support their vendors to release a correct implementation, not…

Fedora's credo is to deploy new technologies so they did a lot of rushed deployment, no surprise there but I don't see how this "excuse" Zoom, 2018 is not so recent anymore..

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#182

Two questions. 1. Why not the .md URL for everybody? 2. Is this really a problem with Zoom or one with Wayland and the Linux distros? I mean Fedora switched to Wayland in 2016 and the screensharing API was added only in 2018. A rushed deployment? Then maybe the Wayland team should make a list of the applications that must absolutely work with Wayland and support their vendors to release a correct implementation, not…

> Is this really a problem with Zoom or one with Wayland and the Linux distros?

I would say this is really a problem with Zoom, mostly due to the lack of attention paid to their web client.

For me, when it comes to video conferencing, the "table stakes" is working duplex audio over bluetooth, and so far only pipewire has solved this, which means Linux only.

After that, two very important features to have are screen sharing and background blur. For screen sharing, both Chrome/Chromium and Firefox have great support for screencast over pipewire, and so do many wayland compositors such as KDE kwin. As such, on a "pure" wayland system with no X11 window [1], screen sharing is also a solved problem.

Background blur is more ... complicated. When Google Meet rolled out https://ai.googleblog.com/2020/10/background-features-in-goo..., it immediately worked with chrome/chromium, on either wayland or X11. However, to this day, I think it still doesn't work with firefox, for whatever reason. Meanwhile, Zoom Linux client only started to support background blur (without green screen) since 5.7.6 released in August 2021, while Zoom web client remains hopeless.

In my previous job, we use Google Meet, and all is well with wayland. In the current one, we use Zoom, and I have to setup https://github.com/fangfufu/Linux-Fake-Background-Webcam as a workaround.

[1] This is very much doable these days, unless you want to run Slack desktop, which is hit-and-miss when running with --ozone-platform=wayland (unlike other electron-based apps such as Signal desktop), and of course the Zoom Linux app, which is just crap, as described in the article. Solution: run Slack and Zoom as Firefox tabs.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In January 2020, Zoom had over 2,500 employees, with 1,396 in the United States and 1,136 in international locations. It is reported that 700 employees within a subsidiary work in China and develop Zoom software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_Video_Communications#Work...

And Zoom is using that headcount to support 55 billion hours of videoconferencing a year. In contrast, YouTube is supporting only six times that much video watched annually with 40 times Zoom's staff. "Small" is relative, but Zoom is punching above its weight for the size of its userbase and the load on its services.

[deleted]

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OBS works fine for me on Wayland through pipewire.

OBS working well on Wayland is AFAICT just in the last year. Pipewire is also just landing in the last 6 months - the most recent Fedora release is the first to use it by default.

On distro with rolling release, I would say pipewire has been working fine since at least January 2021.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OBS works fine for me on Wayland through pipewire.

Here's my two cents: What even IS pipewire? I know what the compositor is because I've been given the choice of either X or Wayland in the past so I had to learn what they are. I've heard of pipewire in the past but I have no clue what it is, where does it fit in the display stack, etc.. Same for the linux audio stack. I don't expect final users to know how to do these though. They want to download OBS and it needs t…

This explained pipewire pretty well to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxEXMHcwtlI

The short answer is that pipewire reimplements pulseaudio and jack, keeping compatability with both at the same time.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#187

Thanks for sharing this. I'm using a relatively simple setup (Ubuntu 21.10 on wayland, single hiDPI tablet display - no secondary gpu, no second monitor) and was frustrated to see Zoom screensharing only show the upper right quarter of the screen (presumably due to not accounting for hidpi) recently. This said, it generally works fine, and am thankful Zoom at least exists on Linux. -- "If you're stuck using Zoom [...…

Zoom product/engineering is indeed hapless when compared to Google Meet product/engineering.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#188
The mass adoption of Zoom in areas where it really shouldn't have been used and the lack of support to users has been shocking to me. It really felt like this just happened to be the company that took off because of the pandemic but a scrappy startup could have done this 1000x better.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#189

People are saying this is Zoom's fault. Maybe it is. However I've given up on Wayland entirely and just gone back to X11. I frequently need to record my screen to show bugs or fixes in features. Most of the open source screen recording software seems to only support X11. I've tried quite a few different open source alternatives (other than the built Gnome Screen recorder which is kinda hidden in a keyboard short-cut…

Have you tried running slack as a tab in chrome/chromium/firefox? I just started doing that very recently on wayland, and it seems to work fine.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#190
post #177

Zoom has better Linux support than almost any proprietary desktop application of similar complexity. For pretty much anything else only a web client is provided. My non-technical wife has no trouble using the Ubuntu version, flipping between using the laptop sound and earbuds. True, she doesn't need desktop sharing and there are issues with that. The fact that there's any support at all for desktop Linux (beyond "it…

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Zoom on Ubuntu works perfectly. It supports switching audio and video sources, annotating, screen sharing with previews of screens, window sharing, even break out rooms and the chat. Some things feel a bit unpolished but it pretty much just works.

The only thing I ever had trouble with are custom backgrounds, and they are a little silly anyway.

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