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How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

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Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#161

Post by bashinator »

IceWreck wrote: post #66
nine_k wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though my experience with Zoom under Linux is much smoother, I can confirm the "random audio device" issue; it may be daunting. And the inability to accept command-line arguments is a choice, not a technical problem. Another fun bit: the same version of Zoom on the same hardware (T470, i5) offers virtual background support under Windows, and disables it under Linux. The machine has no dedicated GPU to have drive…

Virtual Background works perfectly for me on Linux. On a laptop with nvidia hardware. (On Fedora 34, xorg)

As of very recently, like within the past month, same here. They rolled out just a simple blurred background slightly earlier. Running latest Pop! OS.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#162

Post by dathinab »

dathinab wrote: post #157
suby wrote: post #4

I still cannot run a Wayland session on my machine w/ an nvidia 3080 with the latest drivers. It either fails to boot (KDE) or runs at about 15 FPS (Gnome). It seems a little unreasonable to be this mad at a company for not supporting an environment that doesn't work for the vast majority of hardware out there. Especially given that you can just use Zoom within Firefox.

> the vast majority of hardware 3080 is definitely not the vast majority of hardware. The vast majority of hardware is: - older - a lot of Laptop integrated graphics - a lot of less expensive graphic cards Like, I just went and took a look at the price of a 3080 in Germany, no joke it's 1.500€+ on Amazone and Ebay. That is 50%+ more then most people can/want to afford to spend for there whole computer! In the steam s…

If anyone cares:

All RTX 3000 GPUs (both non-TI an TI) together are around 11.4%.

Which sounds like quite a bit.

But again this are systems wit Steam installed.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#163

Post by AshamedCaptain »

burnished wrote: post #143
Georgelemental wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "low marketshare" argument doesn't work as well for a communication service like Zoom, because it's important for everyone on the Zoom call to have access. If 1% of users have Linux, that means that on a Zoom call connecting 10 randomly chosen users, around 10% have at least 1 Linux user in the call.

No, you have one Linux user who is now scrambling to get it to work or is using a device that will make it work. Your example sort of under cuts your argument, just imagine sending that email "I will not be attending our remote meetings due to what some may call a philosophical argument with Zoom, rest assured, I am in the right, and as soon as they see the light and correct their ways, I will start attending meeting…

Or they will switch to Windows.

I used to be in a company that was developing _desktop software exclusively for Linux_ (not multiplatform at all -- Gtk+ based!), and they all (even the developers) used Windows workstations. They would use Windows conferencing software, Windows PIM, Windows mail clients, Windows WWW browsers, Windows IDEs. But all of them would religiously VNC into a Linux server somewhere just to test the tool they were writing. Which they would screencast to fellow developers using Windows software. Nowadays, they likely use Teams (still for Windows).

No one developer found this bizarre. They all claimed it was the same in competitors or previous jobs.

When I asked IT "can I get a laptop with Linux, not Windows?" the response was "but how will you run Outlook?".

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#164

Post by jchw »

Most irritatingly, I use v4l2loopback to do screen capture, but i need to emulate the gnome screenshot API and lie about what environment I’m on to even get the option to use a secondary webcam as desktop sharing, even though that’s just v4l2 and not related to any of this.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#166

Post by solarkraft »

CameronNemo wrote: post #129
smoldesu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kinda a macrocosm for why Wayland still sucks, though. It always starts with a far-too-small scope, saying "we don't want to retread Xorg's mistakes", after which developers create 15 Competing Standards to replace Xorg functionality, and then the Wayland devs realize that if they don't put their foot down then 90% of the Linux desktop will have a subpar experience. It's a brutal, never-ending treadmill for us…

Seems like hyperbole. In this case, there were maybe 3 competing screenshot/screen share methods. None of them were billed as standard. Without the core Wayland devs having to get involved, or even any protocol extensions needing to be made, all of the major desktop environments and even wlroots standardized on a single D-Bus API for the functionality. That API is now a few years old. Yeah it took a while to get adop…

To be fair: It's not only screensharing, it's also screenshots and desktop overlays (important for shells and such).

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#167

Post by jatone »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #71
jatone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flat out incorrect in this case. this has nothing to do with a deprecated API. they just decided to abuse one API when there was an API available for their use case available. x11 is no long maintained expecting an modern API to support it is foolish.

> x11 is no long maintained expecting an modern API to support it is foolish. Xorg is mostly unmaintained, but still extremely popular, and expecting things to work on it is completely reasonable.

I didn't say it was unreasonable to expect x11 to work. I said it was unreasonable to expect a modern API to jump through hoops to work on x11.

x11 works fine as is, and will continue to do so through xwayland. but don't expect new apis to give a rats ass about x11.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#168

Post by phkahler »

fanatic2pope wrote: post #48
Fabricio20 wrote: post #6

I believe this is not entirely Zoom's fault, I've heard a few horror stories with Wayland and screensharing over the last few years. Particularly when I once tried using OBS Studio and it just didn't work on Wayland. I also remember screenshare from things like Google Meet or Discord only being able to share other chromium tabs and not able to share the desktop or any specific applications. This whole story sounds to…

OBS works fine for me on Wayland through pipewire.

OBS working well on Wayland is AFAICT just in the last year. Pipewire is also just landing in the last 6 months - the most recent Fedora release is the first to use it by default.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#169

Post by bArray »

duiker101 wrote: post #116
bArray wrote: post #111

How Not to Support HTML Text, write.as Edition: > If you're stuck using Zoom, jump on [one]( https://community.zoom.com/t5/Meetings/Sharing-application-w... ) [of]( https://community.zoom.com/t5/Meetings/Linux-screen-sharing-... ) [the]( https://community.zoom.com/t5/Meetings/Unable-to-share-scree... ) [..] Why do you need JS to translate your unreadable HTML into readable HTML?

> _Pssst, coming from Hacker News? Add a ".md" to the URL_ This might have been added after your comment. Link with md: https://write.as/n5r0vjolumdnuk2k.md

> This might have been added after your comment.

If that's the case, great work in responding so quickly.

> Link with md: https://write.as/n5r0vjolumdnuk2k.md

You'd think the `.md` would be the markdown and the blank/`.html` would be the HTML? Not the other way around? Might be worth the owner of the website swapping that around afterwards.

Re: How Not to Support Desktop GNU+Linux, Zoom Edition

#170

Post by phkahler »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #75
bitwize wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

X11 is moribund. Part of why is because literally everyone who was working on it in a major way, possibly excepting Keith Packard, eventually considered it a dead end and jumped ship to Wayland.

moribund, stable, I don't care what you call it; X11 actually works consistently, which remains more than Wayland can say

YMMV but I've found both to work fine, with Wayland providing the advertised tear-free video experience that X never could. Granted, when I tried OBS about a year ago I had to resort to an X-session, and that worked as expected. Not that OBS works properly on Wayland, my own use for X - I think - is done.
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