Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

gitlab.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 399 posts

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#231

Post by andrewxdiamond »

jbaber wrote: post #214
devwastaken wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

I agree with everything you're saying, but disagree with the reason. The US federal government has to be too loose about keeping track of citizens specifically to avoid looking too fascist. One of your many American rights is to have no ID at all. Protecting that right for two dozen people makes everything extremely complicated for the rest of us.

> One of your many American rights is to have no ID at all.

Ha, if only. Everyone from FB to the NSA is keeping tabs on individuals in all aspects of life. There is no hiding in the US

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#232

Post by ginko »

kube-system wrote: post #135
devwastaken wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they also do this for ID's, and for voter ID's. It's specifically created to prevent people whom don't have only 1 permanent address,with paper billing, being able to live their daily lives. I had to go to a local county courthouse 4 times to get a "realid" and to renew a driver's license. I had to call all sorts of people to get printed statements sent to me. It's incredibly ridiculous, I would call it complete…

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

>there also isn’t any better alternatives.

Of course there is. It's having a central resident registry like is common in most countries other than the US.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#233

Post by wizzwizz4 »

passivate wrote: post #230
devwastaken wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

>they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. How is that any different than bringing any other piece of official mail that you receive at your home address?

Because it actually validates your address. Plenty of “official mail that you receive at your home address” can be accessed (or produced) without access to the listed address, but you can't spoof knowing information that you never received.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#234

Post by kube-system »

ginko wrote: post #232
kube-system wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

>there also isn’t any better alternatives. Of course there is. It's having a central resident registry like is common in most countries other than the US.

That is not an alternative for the DMV. There is no central registry and they can't create one.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#235

Post by spapas82 »

For a project that you can use to actually sign (electronically of course) a PDF file or verify that a PDF file has a proper signature take a look a this:

https://github.com/spapas/pdf-sign-check

It uses org.bouncycastle and apache pdfbox and is completely open source. I'd be happy to help anybody that wants to use it in his organization!

We use it sucessfully in my organization (public sector in Greece) for some years; notice that to be able to sign you need to have a proper certificate for your organization.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#236

Post by devwastaken »

kube-system wrote: post #228
devwastaken wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think low skilled fraud doesn't have access to a printer? If it cannot be implemented properly, then it shouldn't be done at all. It doesn't matter what good intent it may have had, in effect it is a suppression of individual rights. This entire process would be grounds for a civil war in the 1800's. Yet today we think being a citizen isn't enough to have rights. You have to be apart of a socioeconomics nomic…

Yes, there are absolutely people who do not have the equipment or ability to fake a document. > If it cannot be implemented properly, then it shouldn't be done at all. Perfectionist fallacy. I can't think of any civic requirements that are perfect. We always compromise on perfection because our civic processes also have to be reasonable.

Implimenting it reasonably is properly. I did not say perfect.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#237

Post by kube-system »

yhd8i3q7686i wrote: post #227
kube-system wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

Requiring people to print out a paper and fold it as if it had been in an envelope doesn't authenticate anything but access to a printer and some imagination. Just removing the requirement would be a better alternative.

I am referring to the requirement to produce a utility bill. Not the silly front-line bureaucratic interpretative variations thereof.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#238

Post by ewuhic »

tombert wrote: post #40
tootie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually sign a PDF this way just using Preview on MacOS.

I knew that, and I do run macOS, but the signature always looks "digital" to me. It's not bad, but with Krita and it's pen or pencil brushes, in combination with a decent drawing tablet (well, as decent as a Huion screen tablet is) with a pressure-sensitive pen, I can get something that looks outright indistinguishable to a physical signature.

Dare telling which exactly config for brushes do you use?

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#239

Post by Jolter »

devwastaken wrote: post #224
jbaber wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you're saying, but disagree with the reason. The US federal government has to be too loose about keeping track of citizens specifically to avoid looking too fascist. One of your many American rights is to have no ID at all. Protecting that right for two dozen people makes everything extremely complicated for the rest of us.

The federal government is not too loose in tracking citizens, and you cannot effectively operate in the U.S. without I.D of some form. Birth certificates and tax ID's are necessary for everything from school to work. Infact those that forgo it originally struggle as adults heavily to get those documents later, if at all.

It’s probably true that you can’t operate properly without an ID, and yet the US government is specifically avoiding the one necessary prerequisite to having reliable and convenient IDs: a complete list of its citizens, with place of residence and a mandatory assigned unique identifier.

It fuck people coming and going. You can’t get an ID if you don’t have a place of residence, and yet you can’t just go about your business without an ID.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#240

Post by lemax »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #138
devwastaken wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they also do this for ID's, and for voter ID's. It's specifically created to prevent people whom don't have only 1 permanent address,with paper billing, being able to live their daily lives. I had to go to a local county courthouse 4 times to get a "realid" and to renew a driver's license. I had to call all sorts of people to get printed statements sent to me. It's incredibly ridiculous, I would call it complete…

It's also designed to make sure that poorer people who don't have stable, permanent housing have a tough time

I wouldn't say it's intentionally designed to do this, but that it's a consequence. There's no good reason anyone would intentionally want to keep the poor poor, it's just bad design.
Post reply on HN