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The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

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Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#71
post #31

People are rightfully pointing out how ridiculous some of the overt substantive changes in that end poem are, but I was pretty amazed by how even the quite minor changes totally alter the feel of the thing too. "Sit on a couch and look at a wall" to "Laying on the couch and looking at the wall" loses a lot somehow in a hard-to-pin-down way. It's almost an impressively efficient butchering

"Sit" is from Middle English sitten, from Old English sittan, from Proto-West Germanic sittjan, from Proto-Germanic sitjaną, from Proto-Indo-European *sed- (“sit”). "Lay" is from Middle English lay, from Old French lai, from Latin laicus, from Ancient Greek λαϊκός (laïkós). In English, "sit" feels immediate and active where "lay" is passive and indirect. The distinction is both important and rooted in history. It is…

"lay" as in "layman" or "lay preacher" does have the derivation you give.

As a verb, "lay it down" has Germanic roots, e.g. "liegen". The Greek cognate seems to be "lexos", "bed". (All this from Skeat's etymological dictionary.)

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#72
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to agree, but I feel the need to explain why “rape” is used this way. The original meaning of the word was “to take by force”. Using it to exclusively describe sexual assault is a more modern thing. https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/rape This kind of double meaning in English is very common. The word murder can also be used as “to perform badly”. A way to look at it is English often has two forms of words lik…

I also came here to complain about this use of the word "rape". If you titled this article "The Tragic Rape of Charles Bukowski's Poetry", then it would be used solely as the original meaning. The current title is specifically designed to invoke the idea of a sexual assault - what if the title used the word "Corpse" instead of "Ghost"?

I think the vulgarity is very much in line with the subject matter.

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#73
Bukowski dead drunk on French TV in 1978: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C99h2r8txh4

At the time there were only 3 channels, and that show was very popular, so it's a famous moment. What I find surprising is how elegant he is, even in that situation.

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#74
post #31

People are rightfully pointing out how ridiculous some of the overt substantive changes in that end poem are, but I was pretty amazed by how even the quite minor changes totally alter the feel of the thing too. "Sit on a couch and look at a wall" to "Laying on the couch and looking at the wall" loses a lot somehow in a hard-to-pin-down way. It's almost an impressively efficient butchering

"Sit" is from Middle English sitten, from Old English sittan, from Proto-West Germanic sittjan, from Proto-Germanic sitjaną, from Proto-Indo-European *sed- (“sit”). "Lay" is from Middle English lay, from Old French lai, from Latin laicus, from Ancient Greek λαϊκός (laïkós). In English, "sit" feels immediate and active where "lay" is passive and indirect. The distinction is both important and rooted in history. It is…

Can't comment about the roots of the words, but I agree with your assessment of those words.

This is actually one of my favorite games to play with friends, taking a word and talking about it's connotations, or contrasting it with another similar word. Nothing super academic, just our own thoughts and feelings and examples of use.

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#75

For those who do not know Bukowski's work and wonder why a drunk post office worker gets so much attention, check out Bluebird: https://allpoetry.com/poem/8509539-Bluebird-by-Charles-Bukow...

A couple of weeks ago i was surprised to discover his "16-bit Intel 8088 chip" poem : https://allpoetry.com/16-bit-Intel-8088-chip

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sit" is from Middle English sitten, from Old English sittan, from Proto-West Germanic sittjan, from Proto-Germanic sitjaną, from Proto-Indo-European *sed- (“sit”). "Lay" is from Middle English lay, from Old French lai, from Latin laicus, from Ancient Greek λαϊκός (laïkós). In English, "sit" feels immediate and active where "lay" is passive and indirect. The distinction is both important and rooted in history. It is…

Can't comment about the roots of the words, but I agree with your assessment of those words. This is actually one of my favorite games to play with friends, taking a word and talking about it's connotations, or contrasting it with another similar word. Nothing super academic, just our own thoughts and feelings and examples of use.

Whenever there's a pair of synonyms where one is fancier than the other it's almost always because one is French in origin (i.e. used by the Norman upper class) and the other German (i.e. used by the Anglo-Saxon peasantry). Think "purchase" vs. "buy".

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#77
post #31

People are rightfully pointing out how ridiculous some of the overt substantive changes in that end poem are, but I was pretty amazed by how even the quite minor changes totally alter the feel of the thing too. "Sit on a couch and look at a wall" to "Laying on the couch and looking at the wall" loses a lot somehow in a hard-to-pin-down way. It's almost an impressively efficient butchering

No post body was provided.

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#78
I've only read a little about Bukowski, but when his name comes up, I'll wonder how much he was innately a drunk asshole and how much he had to play one because it was his brand, and your public demands what's on-brand, and, oh, you know, your mask becomes your face and all that.

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sit" is from Middle English sitten, from Old English sittan, from Proto-West Germanic sittjan, from Proto-Germanic sitjaną, from Proto-Indo-European *sed- (“sit”). "Lay" is from Middle English lay, from Old French lai, from Latin laicus, from Ancient Greek λαϊκός (laïkós). In English, "sit" feels immediate and active where "lay" is passive and indirect. The distinction is both important and rooted in history. It is…

Can't comment about the roots of the words, but I agree with your assessment of those words. This is actually one of my favorite games to play with friends, taking a word and talking about it's connotations, or contrasting it with another similar word. Nothing super academic, just our own thoughts and feelings and examples of use.

My favourite example is "fact" vs "factitious". The word "factitious" actually means bogus, make, made up. Whereas "fact" means quite the opposite. However they both come from the same latin word "facere" which means to do or to make.

Have fun digging into that one!

Re: The tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by Black Sparrow Press (2013)

#80

For those who do not know Bukowski's work and wonder why a drunk post office worker gets so much attention, check out Bluebird: https://allpoetry.com/poem/8509539-Bluebird-by-Charles-Bukow...

A couple of weeks ago i was surprised to discover his "16-bit Intel 8088 chip" poem : https://allpoetry.com/16-bit-Intel-8088-chip

He wrote this on a Mac IIsi-- https://realitystudio.org/bibliographic-bunker/charles-bukow...
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