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FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

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Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#221

Post by dsr_ »

devwastaken wrote: post #200
kube-system wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

If you go to my local library and tell them you want a library card, but you don't have any ID, they ask you to give them your address. They send you a postcard, and when you bring it in, they'll give you a library card. No QR code necessary.

The USPS could function quite successfully as an ID system and a bank, were they allowed.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#223

Post by jedberg »

Heh I had to make a version of this for myself. I had a vendor that required a "wet signature" for a document, so I took the PDF, added my digital signature, exported it to JPEG, and then used a command line tool to rotate the image 1% left and then 3% right so it looked like I scanned it a little crooked.

Worked like a charm.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#224

Post by devwastaken »

jbaber wrote: post #214
devwastaken wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

I agree with everything you're saying, but disagree with the reason. The US federal government has to be too loose about keeping track of citizens specifically to avoid looking too fascist. One of your many American rights is to have no ID at all. Protecting that right for two dozen people makes everything extremely complicated for the rest of us.

The federal government is not too loose in tracking citizens, and you cannot effectively operate in the U.S. without I.D of some form. Birth certificates and tax ID's are necessary for everything from school to work. Infact those that forgo it originally struggle as adults heavily to get those documents later, if at all.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#225

Post by 3825 »

kube-system wrote: post #215
devwastaken wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

The point isn't to prevent a skilled attacker. The point is to prevent casual lying and low-skill fraud. Most people who lie/cheat/steal do so because it's easy or because they're dumb. Your QR code idea will cost more money to implement and won't block skilled attackers either, as it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to get mail from a mailbox you don't own. Utility bills are the DMV's equivalent of a cheap…

> it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to get mail from a mailbox you don't own

iirc stealing other people’s mail by tampering with a mailbox is a ~~felony~~ federal crime. If they threw out the mail and you went through their trash it might be different. I anal though.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#226

Post by monocasa »

SamBam wrote: post #190
kube-system wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The closest is probably moving your drivers license registration, which many people wait years to do after moving. Most states do require by law that you do this in a very short period of time after moving. (Although yes, it is not uncommon for people to violate this)

Only if you have a driving license and plan on driving. I agree, it's quite odd that you never officially register as a resident of the state, but I guess it's part of the US's aversion to "papers please."

There's also the state v. federal political issue of the interstate commerce clause. Some municipalities in the pretty far past have tried to restrict people moving there by creating onerous registration barriers that were then struck down by the feds. They're allowed some leeway there, but there's a limit that they don't want to push and the feds are more than happy to enforce their power.

My state (CO) semi recently hit a morph of this concern because they had "pioneer" license plates that cost an extra $100 or so and were only available to people who could prove N generations of ancestry in CO. The feds struck that down as .gov services provided being dependent on state origin and therefore against the interstate commerce clause.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#227

Post by yhd8i3q7686i »

kube-system wrote: post #135
devwastaken wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they also do this for ID's, and for voter ID's. It's specifically created to prevent people whom don't have only 1 permanent address,with paper billing, being able to live their daily lives. I had to go to a local county courthouse 4 times to get a "realid" and to renew a driver's license. I had to call all sorts of people to get printed statements sent to me. It's incredibly ridiculous, I would call it complete…

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

Requiring people to print out a paper and fold it as if it had been in an envelope doesn't authenticate anything but access to a printer and some imagination. Just removing the requirement would be a better alternative.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#228

Post by kube-system »

devwastaken wrote: post #220
kube-system wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't to prevent a skilled attacker. The point is to prevent casual lying and low-skill fraud. Most people who lie/cheat/steal do so because it's easy or because they're dumb. Your QR code idea will cost more money to implement and won't block skilled attackers either, as it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to get mail from a mailbox you don't own. Utility bills are the DMV's equivalent of a cheap…

Do you think low skilled fraud doesn't have access to a printer? If it cannot be implemented properly, then it shouldn't be done at all. It doesn't matter what good intent it may have had, in effect it is a suppression of individual rights. This entire process would be grounds for a civil war in the 1800's. Yet today we think being a citizen isn't enough to have rights. You have to be apart of a socioeconomics nomic…

Yes, there are absolutely people who do not have the equipment or ability to fake a document.

> If it cannot be implemented properly, then it shouldn't be done at all.

Perfectionist fallacy. I can't think of any civic requirements that are perfect. We always compromise on perfection because our civic processes also have to be reasonable.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#229

Post by kube-system »

3825 wrote: post #225
kube-system wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't to prevent a skilled attacker. The point is to prevent casual lying and low-skill fraud. Most people who lie/cheat/steal do so because it's easy or because they're dumb. Your QR code idea will cost more money to implement and won't block skilled attackers either, as it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to get mail from a mailbox you don't own. Utility bills are the DMV's equivalent of a cheap…

> it doesn't take a genius to figure out a way to get mail from a mailbox you don't own iirc stealing other people’s mail by tampering with a mailbox is a ~~felony~~ federal crime. If they threw out the mail and you went through their trash it might be different. I anal though.

You can also rent mailboxes, or use a friends. Neither of those are crimes.

Re: FalsiScan: Make it look like a PDF has been hand signed and scanned

#230

Post by passivate »

devwastaken wrote: post #200
kube-system wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to authenticate residency, and while it’s not a great system, there also isn’t any better alternatives.

If all this was for is to ensure you live at an address then the local government can offer a number of solutions to that. If they want mail, they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office. A utility bill doesn't require proof of residency to get. Neither does a credit card statement. Infact if I were creative…

>they can simply mail you a unique qr code which you could then scan and complete the process entirely online. Or at a minimum bring physically to an office.

How is that any different than bringing any other piece of official mail that you receive at your home address?

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