Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now • Hacker News Board

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#361

Post by rnk » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:49 PM UTC

carapace wrote: post #249

tcmart14 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is the idea, but it doesn't work in practice because, well people. Really useful electronics are harder to get or have been hard to get, but yet if I wanted to buy my daughter a twerking llama toy, I'd have no issue with acquiring one of those. A little more meaningful example, we grow pistachios (a water intensive crop), in a place with limited access to water (desert areas of California) and have been…

> Seems like if the market just naturally achieved efficiency, you'd grow water intensive crops in places that were not constrained on the resource. In this case the market is up against (arguably irrational) water rights and such, the market is far from free. > The planning and management of water in California is subject to a vast number of laws, regulations, management plans, and historic water rights. The state a…

What is already happening is private equity is buying up farms in the west to get their water, and cities are doing it too.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#362

Post by ethbr0 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:49 PM UTC

PaulAJ wrote: post #275

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the overprotective nature of American parenting comes to bite you: your kid will be fine playing with other kids outside, why not… do it?

Not necessarily. Kids with poor social skills get bullied.

I'd counter that getting bullied is a critical component of learning social skills.

Put rails on it with teacher or parent supervision, so it doesn't get out of hand and the worst excesses can be avoided.

But if children can't navigate social situations... they grow up into the adults we are literally talking about.

(Said as someone who had a difficult time socially as a child, and put in and continue to put in considerable work to improve myself)

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#363

Post by tejtm » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #351

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the only aspect of the article that most on this site can relate with? I take it most have not worked service industry or it was a very long time ago. I'm interested in what seems to be the growing incivility toward other people. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/us/apt-cape-cod-restauran... > The verbal abuse from rude customers got so bad, the owners of one farm-to-table restaurant on Cape Cod said, that som…

Some people forgot what it's like to be punched in the mouth

"Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." -- Mike Tyson

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#364

Post by brimble » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #307

mcv wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, if you want the labour market to be a free market, universal basic income will help; then you've got a market where people can always say no to a deal they don't like. When the choice becomes: take the shitty deal or starve, it's not really a free market anymore.

What stops sellers from raising prices to the point that any meaningful gain in UBI is effectively zero?

If they could do that, why haven't they already?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#365

Post by opo » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

tcmart14 wrote: post #233

ajmurmann wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I naively thought the whole point of the market was to effectively route resources to where they are most in demand and allow innovation from the ground up where it's needed without central planning

I think that is the idea, but it doesn't work in practice because, well people. Really useful electronics are harder to get or have been hard to get, but yet if I wanted to buy my daughter a twerking llama toy, I'd have no issue with acquiring one of those. A little more meaningful example, we grow pistachios (a water intensive crop), in a place with limited access to water (desert areas of California) and have been…

>...Seems like if the market just naturally achieved efficiency, you'd grow water intensive crops in places that were not constrained on the resource.

What does preferential treatment by the government have to do with the market? If the farmers didn't get water at a heavily discounted price from the government, they likely wouldn't be able to grow such water intensive crops and the crops would be grown in places that were not contained on the resource. Heck, they even grow rice in CA!

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#366

Post by claudiulodro » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #307

mcv wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, if you want the labour market to be a free market, universal basic income will help; then you've got a market where people can always say no to a deal they don't like. When the choice becomes: take the shitty deal or starve, it's not really a free market anymore.

What stops sellers from raising prices to the point that any meaningful gain in UBI is effectively zero?

Why don't landlords currently figure out a tenant's salary and charge exactly that amount in rent? Competition will still exist in a UBI society.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#367

Post by rnk » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #198

mynameishere wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many low-wage employees the alternative to this is check cashing fees which is even worse. The issue of why so many people are unbanked is a separate discussion.

Access to banking is indeed a problem, but pragmatically there is always cash or a non-fraudulent [0] check drawn on a local bank. And for tips specifically, they can just be bundled with the rest of the pay rather than creating a second problem. [0] for example checks drawn on Bank of America accounts are generally fraudulent, as BoA refuses to pay the specified amount when presented for payment at a branch. They're…

Can you explain. You left off your reference, but are you saying boa refuses to pay legit checks or what exactly?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#368

Post by willcipriano » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #238

willcipriano wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's sort of funny is the concern about tipped workers is also classist. Tipped workers in restaurants do pretty well, at least in contrast to their hourly counterparts in the back of the house. College educated people often take front of house jobs during college so they empathize with the front of house workers, but the front of house makes considerably more than the back and has far better working conditions. St…

While there may very well be a higher proportion of college students in front-of-house jobs, the idea that that's the majority of such people is similar to the idea that minimum-wage jobs in general are "for teenagers", and thus shouldn't need to provide a living wage. They all need better pay, but tipped minimum wage being lower is a further travesty (even with the provision that they have to take home at least mini…

My point is if you feel what FOH staff take home is a travisty, then you should be apaplectic with rage when you look towards the back of house. I don't see that often, it's mostly complaints about bartender and waitstaff earnings.

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#369

Post by ethbr0 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:55 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #360

dlp211 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this does happen, this is not normal and CPS isn't going to do anything to a healthy family that let's their kids go out and play.

I would hope not, but how realistic of a concern it is depends on your neighbors, the local CPS folks, and how well you’d come across to them at the time. It adds a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. That near as I can tell no one lets a kid out alone is indicating how big a problem it really is. The most I’ve seen here is when they’re paired up and 12+, and here is one of the safest places in the county in a very…

This absolutely depends on local CPS, and they have wide authority within their lane. As they should, considering their mission and the interactions and choices they have to make in bad cases.

But it does mean that a lot is subject to opinion. And once you're on the radar, how do you get off? How do you prove you're a good, safe, responsible parent when the judging worker believes otherwise and has some authority to make that fact?

Re: Former Labor Secretary Found What Work Is Like Now

#370

Post by dlp211 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #271

AlexandrB wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true if you're looking at the capital market. If you consider the labor market, I would argue it's freer if employees have more freedom to change jobs (i.e. there is some redistribution and social safety net). Edit: Also, a market with redistribution is more democratic. More actors have money to provide market input (demand or investment) when resources are not highly concentrated.

Free market doesn't mean that actors can do whatever they want. It means that the market has the power to allocate resources. In the labor market, the labor market allocated that employee to a job, and allocated a penalty to changing jobs, that the government in then changing. Also, even in the labor market, the scenario you're describing is punishing the labor buyer but rewarding the labor provider, so it's not just…

Free markets are not about just the power to allocate, but also transparent knowledge in a decision. The labor purchaser almost always has an advantage over the labor provider in their transaction and don't actually represent a free market.

Even in the tech industry this is true. People were shocked the other day when they found out that their income data was being reported and sold by the big credit companies in America. Google, Microsoft, Amazon, they all share their employees income data with one another through 3rd parties. They have so much more knowledge than you or I and it represents a huge advantage for them when hiring.