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For a single person yes but if you have family Ohio is a nice place to live. That's why Dave Chappelle's decided to live out there.
Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#92its a shame we didn't see this type of investment after the rust belt area crashed in 2008. if we had more domestic chip plants, we probably wouldn't be in the current chip shortage rn chip fab/manufacturing process probably doesn't generate as many jobs as the auto industry (the process is automated heavily from what I have seen) at its peak but at least they will be very high paying.
>if we had more domestic chip plants, we probably wouldn't be in the current chip shortage rn Why? At the end of the day it's a capacity shortage. The only way to prevent that is to have surplus capacity prior to the pandemic. Considering how companies don't like to spend money on expensive fabs that end up getting underutilized, I'm skeptical that having more domestic chip plants would lead to that.
> The only way to prevent that is to have surplus capacity prior to the pandemic. The only way to prevent that is to have surplus capacity prior to the pandemic.
"Capacity" in a fab means throughput. Contrary to the breathlessness that I hear when people describe modern semiconductor manufacturing, fabs are nowhere near optimal. There's plenty of dumb shit that happens in an ordinary day at a semiconductor fab—and consequently, lots of room for (easy) improvements. Fabs have lower than optimal capacity because they go heavy on hiring for things like a background in physics and chemistry, or tangential degrees like aerospace[1], but they don't treat IT concerns or the day-to-day processes that workers are engaged in like engineering problems. This gets you things like routine showstoppers that take 20+ minutes to resolve because that's how long it takes to go turn off the Caps Lock on a given workstation before being able to resume work. So much room for improvement.
1. and proficiency in Microsoft Office https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30021528
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're building the plant near Columbus, which isn't near the Great Lakes. If they wanted Great Lakes water they would've chosen Cleveland, which is very close to Lake Erie.
Semantically, damning water in the Great Lakes Watershed (how Columbus get's its water) is not THAT different from letting that water flow into Lake Erie and then piping it back. Point being, Ohio has very few long-term drought concerns.
Columbus is not in the Lake Erie watershed. It is in the Ohio River watershed. The Great Lakes Compact does not allow Columbus to get its water from Lake Erie.
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Does anyone know why Intel would want to build a "mega-site" in the city of Columbus Ohio? My guess would be access to talent and costs. Columbus is more than 2x bigger than Cleveland. Building cars is also an international affair and we see those plants all over the place.
Columbus metro area is roughly the same size as Cleveland metro area so I don't think that is the reason. However, it could still have a talent advantage. Having OSU nearby is helpful, and maybe it is easier to attract talent to move to a city with a big university.
Columbus grew 15% in the last decade, Cleveland shrank 6%. That could also have something to do with as there's reason to believe it will continue to attract skilled talent.
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#95"Up to $100B". Okay. I planned on spending up to $100B for my wife's Christmas present. I actually ended up spending $75 + tax.
This isn’t very charitable. When companies publish this sort of thing they’re generally committed (however tentatively) to within some reasonable percentage of the amount. Provided of course it makes financial sense after further diligence and the like.
Foxconn once said it would spend $10B building a factory in Wisconsin. Now the claim is $672M -- over next six years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_in_Wisconsin
We'll believe it when it happens.
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Foxconn is hard, repetitive manual labor. chip fab isn’t nearly as bad of work. Americans don’t want crappy jobs which is why foxcon had issues.
"TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash" - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ > Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) faces challenges managing employees at its new fab in Arizona who are unaccustomed to the long work hours and management culture that in Taiwan have helped make the company the world’s largest chip foundry.
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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#97Intel said the same thing for Arizona as well. Initial $20B investment which could expand to $100B. So they are building it in two places. I wonder why they dont keep it all in Arizona? ( May be Tax Break, but I have no idea how Tax Break works in US ) And if you include their (expected) expansion in EUR, Intel is layering the foundation for Foundry Services. Compared to its half assed Custom Foundry in 2012/2013 wit…
> why not all AZ? Game theory between US states playing to get the most gov’t assistance? Finite pool of talent? Our plants are in rural areas and everyone is struggling to hire, from auto to bakeries.
The Great Lakes region has a surprising concentration of advanced manufacturing skillsets. With large manufacturing facilities with extremely stringent quality standards like a bleeding edge chip fab there's going to be a enormous need for people with traditional manufacturing-specific support skillsets that are simply not available in large quantities anywhere else in the US.
If the current administration's support of the transition to electric vehicles doesn't falter, that's going to drive an increasing need for microprocessors in vehicles. Intel locating themselves in central Ohio puts their production facilities on an interstate highway hub that puts them within a 6-12 hour drive of nearly every major auto manufacturing facility in the US, which is an enormous incentive for the auto manufacturers to source from them. Additionally, Columbus has the Rickenbacker International Airport which is a dedicated air freight airport that lets them get their product global faster.
This announcement of two facilities makes me think that Phoenix is going to be a smaller facility handling the more advanced, smaller run chip designs, but host the R&D and design offices (To take advantage of the city's concentration of tech talent) while Columbus is going to be the primary production facility.
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're building the plant near Columbus, which isn't near the Great Lakes. If they wanted Great Lakes water they would've chosen Cleveland, which is very close to Lake Erie.
Semantically, damning water in the Great Lakes Watershed (how Columbus get's its water) is not THAT different from letting that water flow into Lake Erie and then piping it back. Point being, Ohio has very few long-term drought concerns.
There are actually extremely specific and intense rules about which parts of the country can take water from the great lakes and what burdens they incur when they do.
It's not necessarily aligned with any specific jurisdictions either, I believe it's largely based on the boundaries of the watersheds. Or at least where the boundary was ascertained to be at some point.
So yes it's very different, regardless of the semantics(?).
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#99When it comes to proximity research institutions, the choice of location is strange to me. Somewhere in the northern Indiana/Illinois/Michigan (i.e. "Greater Michiana") would have made a lot more sense. That way, you would be close to, UIUC, Northwestern, UChicago, UMichigan, Purdue, Notre Dame, UIndiana, Argonne National Lab, etc.
The Ohio State University is in Columbus and if not the largest university in the world it is in the top 3.
Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant
#100When it comes to proximity research institutions, the choice of location is strange to me. Somewhere in the northern Indiana/Illinois/Michigan (i.e. "Greater Michiana") would have made a lot more sense. That way, you would be close to, UIUC, Northwestern, UChicago, UMichigan, Purdue, Notre Dame, UIndiana, Argonne National Lab, etc.
Do the people that need to work at the fabs come from those schools?
No. It is unskilled labor save for the jobs that are not on the shop floor.