Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#331

Post by daemonna » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:37 AM UTC

iRobbery wrote: post #160

misja111 wrote: post #147

I can confirm, I have known some people who smoked Cannabis basically the whole day long for several years. They lost certain cognitive abilities, e.g. they were not really able to do calculations in their head anymore. They also got severe problems with their biorhythm by the way.

I stopped cold turkey smoking weed daily after 25 years, i can tell you from personal experience this does not apply to everybody. It also seems rather strange to take one property of their lives and use it to explain their in your eyes loss of abilities. Not doing something for a long time also has this effect, so perhaps they for many years didnt need to do calculations in their head, or use their high school frenc…

exactly.. great point. I smoke weed for 20+ years and have no issues with it.. i work in IT (cloud tech) and gotta learn lot of things every week. Weed helps to stress less, but i'm sure that if i was unemployed and smoking, it would make lazy dumb idiot that can't remember much.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#332

Post by avodonosov » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:39 AM UTC

JohnCClarke wrote: post #312

Before anyone freaks out too much: "Persistent" means up to one week. From the actual paper: "However, results were not significant for an abstinence period of more than 7 days." Basically, science has proved that stoners behave like stoners. And if you stop it takes a few days for everything to wear off.

Your quote only relates to verbal learning and verbal memory, in one of the included meata-analisys.

The study includes many more cognitive functions.

Why do you quote this phrase from the middle of the text, out of context?

Read results in the abstract.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#333

Post by avodonosov » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:41 AM UTC

Mortiffer wrote: post #328

JohnCClarke wrote: post #312

Before anyone freaks out too much: "Persistent" means up to one week. From the actual paper: "However, results were not significant for an abstinence period of more than 7 days." Basically, science has proved that stoners behave like stoners. And if you stop it takes a few days for everything to wear off.

Thank you for this extract. Iv seen many past meta analysis on the 7 to 14 day impairment but no difference after that. Based on these findings i use marijuana regularly but never in periods of need of high output like fundraising, product release date sprint etc... There are a lot of parts of life when you have a lot of stress but you don't actually need to be on your top game you just need to show up for those peri…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/

> Cannabis appears to continue to exert impairing effects in executive functions even after 3 weeks of abstinence and beyond. While basic attentional and working memory abilities are largely restored, the most enduring and detectable deficits are seen in decision-making, concept formation and planning.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#334

Post by 4ggr0 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:43 AM UTC

otherme123 wrote: post #181

mellavora wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we are social creatures. Even the most introverted of us (finger points at self). So no surprise that being around parties/other people has a positive effect on moral. The health benefits of the social contact almost certainly outweigh the negative health impacts of a tiny amount of alcohol.

A lot of drugs make you more social, but sadly they are all outlawed except alcohol. MDMA was used for years to lubricate psicotherapy sessions, until the FDA found out that some people was having "too much fun", banned the thing, and denied it has any possible positive effect. Only two years ago it seems that it is going to be reseached again. Thomas Szasz has some books about drug history and the paths that turns a…

I would like to add psychedelic mushrooms to the list of unnecessarily banned substances, please :)

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#335

Post by demosito666 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:47 AM UTC

JohnCClarke wrote: post #312

Before anyone freaks out too much: "Persistent" means up to one week. From the actual paper: "However, results were not significant for an abstinence period of more than 7 days." Basically, science has proved that stoners behave like stoners. And if you stop it takes a few days for everything to wear off.

This matches my experience perfectly. I used to smoke weed about once a month when when I was a teenager, and I noticed that I could observe mild cognitive impairments for about a week after smoking. They were fading gradually during those days. To illustrate, the next day after smoking I would occasionally notice that it takes me two times longer than usual to understand the task in school textbook and sometimes I could even loose the thread in a conversation. I also would catch my mind "frozen" in some thought, like "why can't the government just print all the money it needs?". Usually the next second you'd move to "ah, because inflation", but in that case it'd just "stand" at place.

On subsequent days it'd become less severe, and on day 5 and later I'd only notice that I forget why I came to the kitchen more often than usual. After about a week I was not able to spot anything unusual. This was actually quite scare and was one of the reasons I eventually quite entirely.

Another reason by the way was that I don't really find the effect pleasant or relaxing like many do. I fact, weed induces paranoia, thought loop and other unpleasant effects in my mind. The same is true for alcohol and lots of other drugs, so maybe my case is a bit more severe than regular.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#336

Post by schwartzworld » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:47 AM UTC

otherme123 wrote: post #181

mellavora wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we are social creatures. Even the most introverted of us (finger points at self). So no surprise that being around parties/other people has a positive effect on moral. The health benefits of the social contact almost certainly outweigh the negative health impacts of a tiny amount of alcohol.

A lot of drugs make you more social, but sadly they are all outlawed except alcohol. MDMA was used for years to lubricate psicotherapy sessions, until the FDA found out that some people was having "too much fun", banned the thing, and denied it has any possible positive effect. Only two years ago it seems that it is going to be reseached again. Thomas Szasz has some books about drug history and the paths that turns a…

I am surprised to learn that Szasz was in support of any drug use in therapy, given that he went on to cofound CCHR, a branch of the church of scientology whose mission it is to ban psychiatry.

These are the people who claim "psychs" killed Kurt Cobain

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#337

Post by mettamage » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:50 AM UTC

Mordisquitos wrote: post #314

mettamage wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps slightly TMI, but it's HN so let's share some fun ideas I have about this. __Stress is most likely super linear__ Not a doctor, but from what I know, the biggest negative effects of alcohol occur with binge drinking. From a logical perspective it makes sense that the negative effects are super linear, because that is the case with many forms of stress. When it comes to stress, there is always some threshhold…

> Another thing that I have learned is that alcohol is an upper at low quantities (1 to 2 standard glasses of beer), it gets your heart rate up, etc. It is a downer at larger quantities (e.g. drunk people at 10 standard glasses of beer). If you don't drink much alcohol, then you are most likely experiencing it as an upper, it doesn't continue that way. > I like to drink 1 to 2 glasses as well because of what you said…

That's an awesome share! Thanks for mentioning it it.

More importantly, it's definitely not the case that that organization is real, it's merely fiction. And I definitely am not trying to thwart it by inticing people to drink one to TWO glasses.

However, if it were to be real, then one could say that my plan might be diabolical indeed.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#338

Post by Veen » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:55 AM UTC

avgcorrection wrote: post #322

kumarvvr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another view, is that, except for the extremely strong willed, getting used to a serene state of mind is addicting and kind of counter productive. Perhaps, addictive is not the right word. But it seems to me (purely from a human nature perspective) its similar to obesity (Eating food is not "addictive", but there is a definite element of "craving" and inability to overcome that craving). All in all, such substances a…

You can’t just throw out the word “human nature” and expect anyone to accept it. “Human nature” just means “this thing we all know about how the world and people work, come on… now don’t be difficult”. It means nothing.

We are biological beings and our biology determines our diets, neurology, endocrinology, and multiple other factors about our lives. Whether people like it or not, we do have a biological human nature that shapes many aspects of our behaviour and culture.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#339

Post by fbanon » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:57 AM UTC

iRobbery wrote: post #160

misja111 wrote: post #147

I can confirm, I have known some people who smoked Cannabis basically the whole day long for several years. They lost certain cognitive abilities, e.g. they were not really able to do calculations in their head anymore. They also got severe problems with their biorhythm by the way.

I stopped cold turkey smoking weed daily after 25 years, i can tell you from personal experience this does not apply to everybody. It also seems rather strange to take one property of their lives and use it to explain their in your eyes loss of abilities. Not doing something for a long time also has this effect, so perhaps they for many years didnt need to do calculations in their head, or use their high school frenc…

If someone said they got mental problems from regular alcohol/amphetamine/antidepressants/benzodiazepines consumption nobody would question them.

But when they share a negative experience with cannabis, suddenly a bunch of stoners appear and try to discredit their story! Your friend got schizophrenia from smoking weed? Nah bro, he was already predisposed, and by chance it activated after smoking weed. You have memory problems after years of smoking? Nah, you might be just getting old, we may never know!

Don't be so insecure about your drug habits. Cannabis can be harmful, so what? Billions of people smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, eat sugary treats, all while fully aware that it can be harmful (but it might cause no harm to them!). You smoke cannabis because you enjoy getting stoned, even though it might be harmful. You're an adult who weighed the pros and cons, and came to the conclusion that the risks are acceptable for you.

But please, don't try to discredit other people's experiences!

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#340

Post by BoxOfRain » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 11:59 AM UTC

vegai_ wrote: post #227

geocrasher wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I drive better when I've had a few" is something I have actually heard from people in my past. Far, far past. And they think that because they no longer have that voice in their head that tells them they're doing something stupid. "I code better when I'm high" is something that can only be judged by those around you. If somebody else judges your code to be better, fine. But your self assessment is fundamentally flaw…

Those are wildly different actions though, unless you're modifying live production code for a pacemaker or something like that. Doing a bit of inebriated coding that you verify later might be just fine. I'm almost certain that the resulting code won't be better, but there may be situations where a clear head would have produced no code at all due to mental blocks.

As a hard rule I'll never be impaired at work or anything like that, though on my personal projects I've found slowing drinking a glass of a good rum is a very useful aid to programming. As others have said there's a wonderful objectivity to programming, you can't really blag it when you're working with others as I am on the personal project. I think it's the lack of inhibition that helps, it's telling the voice in your head to shut up with over-engineering things and just get to the instant gratification of a panel of green tests and features that work.

Debugging while inebriated is another thing altogether, that's no fun at all.