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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#921

Post by estaseuropano »

Somewhat related: what have you found to be a good replacement for alcohol as a habit/relaxation device?

I enjoy my evening wine, but I slowly realised I mainly crave flavour (sorry hydrohomies). I don't want to do the sugary drink/juice route so am attempting to replace wine with roiboos tea or similar infusions, but I haven't found the right spot yet. Maybe it just takes more habituation or there is some element that simply doesn't bring me the same enjoyment/pleasure as unwinding with a glass of merlot or primitivo.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#922

Post by [deleted] »

dahart wrote: post #808
dionidium wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to feel some dissonance about this, you might note that this is the exact language the CDC uses for things like secondhand smoke -- "There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke" -- which everybody nods along to and accepts without much scrutiny. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... Meanwhile, when it's something like, say, cosmic radiation exposure from c…

There is no dissonance here, this is FUD. The language is wildly different because the actual risks are wildly different. One kills a lot of people and the other doesn’t. How many people are actually dying from air travel radiation? The numbers are low enough that they’re hard to find evidence for. Here’s a study, for example, that attempted to answer the question for pilots, who obviously fly frequently. They weren’…

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#924

Post by lmm »

dahart wrote: post #886
lmm wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even urban outdoor second hand smoke really is a higher risk than air travel radiation. Isn't this exactly what's in dispute? What's the evidence that this is true?

Not really. The actual topic of conversation underneath the smoke is the political neutrality of the CDC, and public mistrust of science and government funded sources of information. If you are really curious about the evidence, follow the thread up and click the links. I already posted links that have some stats and links to studies on the harms of second-hand smoke, and so did @dionidium too. :)

I didn't see anything in your links that addressed second-hand smoke specifically? I think there's a broad consensus that a) tobacco is a significant cause of premature death b) low outdoor air quality (e.g. high PM25) is a significant cause of premature death. But given that tobacco smoke does not show up in your link's list of major contributors to low outdoor air quality, that does not add up to a statement that second-hand smoke is significantly dangerous.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#925

Post by imtringued »

dleslie wrote: post #727
babypuncher wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that there is something to be gained in exchange for the risk posed by cosmic rays during air travel, so people are more interested in taking a nuanced approach to it. Meanwhile second hand smoke is a nuisance at best and a legitimate health concern at worse. Most people (myself included) are happy to ban smoking on airplanes or in restaurants even if the health benefits are negligible at be…

> Nobody gains anything from an activity that fundamentally requires exposure to tobacco smoke. Except smokers, of course. Smoking isn't just addictive and deadly, like alcohol, it has its own appeal to users.

Isn't smoking a terrible deal, even for smokers? If its just about the nicotine there are lots of ways to get it without ruining your lungs or arteries (inflammation is the easiest way to get heart disease).

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#926

Post by scns »

dahart wrote: post #808
dionidium wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to feel some dissonance about this, you might note that this is the exact language the CDC uses for things like secondhand smoke -- "There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke" -- which everybody nods along to and accepts without much scrutiny. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... Meanwhile, when it's something like, say, cosmic radiation exposure from c…

There is no dissonance here, this is FUD. The language is wildly different because the actual risks are wildly different. One kills a lot of people and the other doesn’t. How many people are actually dying from air travel radiation? The numbers are low enough that they’re hard to find evidence for. Here’s a study, for example, that attempted to answer the question for pilots, who obviously fly frequently. They weren’…

It may not be deadly, but female flight attendants become infertile earlier than women working on the ground.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#927

Post by machinelearning »

mise_en_place wrote: post #893
machinelearning wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the headline implies that there is no cardiovascular benefit. “Studies have shown that even small amounts of alcohol can increase a person's risk of cardiovascular disease” “To date, no reliable correlation has been found between moderate alcohol consumption and a lower risk of heart disease”

Yes, relative to abstaining. If there's a 40% risk reduction in cardiovascular mortality in moderate drinkers, then there will be a 60% increase in risk for the moderate drinking, relative to someone who abstains.

Not sure I follow, what group are they comparing the 40% risk reduction to?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#929

Post by Zababa »

Seanambers wrote: post #823
Zababa wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For comparaison, smoking is ~10 years of life expectancy reduction https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/heal... . Surprisingly obesity seems to only replace some of your last years with years with diabetes, without decreasing your longevity https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4951120/ . I think I didn't read that study correctly, or didn't find a good one. Air pollution might be aroun…

I'd say quality of life is a way better measure - but its so subjective it makes it difficult. I'm a sociable person, and in my(western) experience there are more good times when alcohol is involved, even with people who does not drink often. I get that it may have an adverse effect on health and longevity. But in the end, we are all going to die - to grow old just to be old doesn't sit right either.

There's a metric know an "Disability-adjusted life year", or DALY, that tries to quantify this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disability-adjusted_life_year.

And your point about social alcohol is well taken. I have the luck of being a lightweight with drinking, so usually a glass of cider is enough for me, and with the right people it's always a good time. On the other hand, lots of people my age (young adults) tends to drink multiple pints of beer multiple times a week. They should at least be aware of the tradeoff they're making.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#930

Post by greggman3 »

I forgot which podcast but someone mentioned it was their opinion that alcohol is a social lubricant and that without it we'd be waring and fight more. IIRC the podcast was talking about research in Asia, China in particular, where people gather after work at the drinking place (bar, tavern, whatever) and via alcohol they open up, negotiate, apologize, learn details and reasons that weren't spoken at work.

The point being, if true, maybe the without alcohol the world will go to shit (unless we find substitutes).

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