Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review • Hacker News Board

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#201

Post by YarickR2 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #58

erulabs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There ought to be a name for this paradox. Maybe this is out of left field but I've called it the "stimpack & herion" problem. If I was playing a game, and I was the general of an army, and I could tell my marines to "use stimpack", which would make them move faster and be more focused, or "use herion", which would make them move slower and be less focused. A general would never order "use herion", and plenty would o…

Interesting analogy. Yeah, I tend to combine narrow observations and extrapolate them to see what happens on a societal scale. Speaking of Generals, I can imagine China/Russia drumming up pro-Marijuana narrative in US to cripple it from within. When 20% of the population is addicted to Marijuana with memory loss and obesity (munchies! hello), it is a good strategy. I mean, isn't that the reason China is banning video…

Well, in Russia it's the other way around - repeated pushes to legalize mj in Russia are seen as a way for USA to cripple Russian youngsters , making them disinterested in pursuing casual life goals - education, career and family. Go figure

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#202

Post by Rndthrowaway212 » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #11

hackly wrote: post #6

First alcohol, now this?! How else will we drown our sorrows and numb our pains?

Exercise and a healthy diet. I typed this in jest but instead of closing the tab I realize that yes, this is a good alternative, perhaps the best, if you can do it . Not everyone can, and typically it’s not their fault if they can’t.

Yeah, and it's a big if. Personally, I tried, and ended up having suicidal thoughts every time I exercised. With weed, that's not a problem.

If one has sorrows that need drowning, then the first step should be dealing with those issues and seek help if needed -- not trying cliché things that sound like they came from some mindfulness channel on Youtube.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#203

Post by can16358p » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

jimsimmons wrote: post #49

basq wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weed withdrawals can last months for me, severe depression / anhedonia / executive function impairment; duration depending on how much/long I used. I'll bounce back but man does it suck going through the repair process. Nothing is enjoyable, life just feels dull and flat, and it's hard to get anything done.

The subreddit r/leaves has been really helpful for me in the past

The punny name of the sub and the reference to r/trees is lovely.

Knew r/trees but didn't know r/leaves.

Thanks.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#204

Post by scaramanga » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

mrleiter wrote: post #185

From my short 1 month experiene working in a clinical ward: if young people got brought in due to a psychosis, in the case that it was drug induced, at least 50% were long term cannabis users (followed by alcohol abuse, then some psychoactive drugs, and heroin/crack). Cannabis definitely is not the vanilla drug so many people make it out to be. *EDIT: I get the selection bias now, sorry.

Excellent anecdata. If the effect is so striking, I wonder why it has so stubbornly eluded all the scientific studies seeking to find a causation? Could it be the case that the correlation you describe is caused by one or more "hidden variables"?

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#205

Post by pelim » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:26 AM UTC

eddyerburgh wrote: post #60

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #4

My personal experience certainly agrees with this. I definitely shouldn’t smoke on a work night, and it’s not a good idea on Sunday either. The more hours until I need to perform cognitively, the better. I abstained for months before the last time I did job interviews. On the other hand, I know people also gainfully employed at top companies who code while high and claim to have no issues. Your mileage may vary, I gu…

So why smoke at all? Don’t you want to operate in life at your cognitive best?

the findings in the study regarding work performance don't apply for everyone

smoking sativa strains increase work performance for me and i know a lot of other dev how performing well while smoking cannabis in the office!

- sorry they smoked at the rooftop terrace not in the office

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#206

Post by kumarvvr » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:26 AM UTC

playcache wrote: post #123

hooande wrote: post #78

I've known many people in silicon valley who smoke cannabis regularly (several times a week if not daily). They all seemed to be cognitively normal. Some of them function on a level I only wish I could attain. I think regular cannabis use attracts a certain type of person. That type of person can vary in their ability and intelligence, just like any type of person. This is also true of say, hardcore fans of fantasy f…

It's really no different to people using caffeine (aside to the legality). They are both drugs, the main difference being I bet more folks suffer from the effects of caffeine (anxiety, loss of sleep, stress), than the do cannabis.

No, sorry, cannabis and caffeine are not the same. Not the underlying substances, not the internal biological changes, not the effects.

No one laughed out their brains after drinking a pot of coffee.

Pun intended.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#207

Post by danrocks » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:27 AM UTC

yellow_lead wrote: post #10

danrocks wrote: post #5

I don't use cannabis and don't know many people who, but I did meet some long time users back in CA when I lived there. They all seemed to have that "permanent high" look on their faces. I wonder if this is related. Maybe it's all worth it, I don't know.

Even when sober?

Yes. Also being a little slow at work. So I'm curious as to what the article means by "persistence": if it's 45 minutes or 45 years.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#208

Post by danrocks » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:27 AM UTC

DonHopkins wrote: post #194

danrocks wrote: post #5

I don't use cannabis and don't know many people who, but I did meet some long time users back in CA when I lived there. They all seemed to have that "permanent high" look on their faces. I wonder if this is related. Maybe it's all worth it, I don't know.

Did they look permanently high, constantly talk about what route they drove to get wherever you were and how the traffic was along the way, refer to highway names with definite articles like "The 101", and say "dude" and "totally" a lot? Then they were just Los Angeles Californias. But yeah, they were also probably actually high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIklKPzND20

This made my day, Jesus Christ. One of my favorite sketches of all time.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#209

Post by xlii » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:28 AM UTC

loceng wrote: post #149

xlii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment strikes me cause I’ve been doing the same with alcohol - not to get drunk but to impair some of the logical thinking and analysis in the evenings. Funnily enough I started to deal with ADD/ADHD in my family recently and learned from the doctor that this kind of behavior is symptomatic in adults. Recently doc even shared this with me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32489193/ Not directing this at you par…

What was the treatment, I presume medication, but was anything preventative-proactive or non-medication prescribed or suggested first re: lifestyle changes like cleaning up diet etc?

Yes, there is a plenty and most are non-invasive.

Unfortunately, a lot of research is focused on children and and not a lot of things are being tested (due to safety of children research I presume), however this start to change and more adult-based reasearch is being made. While there is no golden bullet most of the proposed changes are non-intrusive.

What we're doing is changing our diet foremost. More Omega-3 acids, shifting toward protein diet and supplementing magnesium and vitamin D. We put a bowl with a lot of nuts (and small bits of chocolate) and it's disappearing astoundingly fast (we were eating nuts before, but by making it more accessible it's just "the stack" and because there are like 8 varietes in the bowls + chocolate chips no one complains about it being bland). ADD/ADHD has a lot of comorbidity with gut issues, so fibre is important too.

And there is more and more and more. Making sure that physical activity is present (as it's great dopamine booster), keeping track of sleep patterns (sleep deprivation is common as many ADD/ADHD are light sleepers), recognizing activities with hypnosis like effects, so to not get too drawn in and so on.

But in the end there's a lot of knowledge that is power itself. ADD/ADHD has ~70% (lately I heard 76% figure from one doctor) transmissibility, and thus being able to work with it better makes for better family life and parenthood. Family member had a burst of anger this year during Christmas like pretty much every year prior. Few years back? Everyone were scared of escalation and sat in silence for 2 days. This year - everyone shrugged it off as a brain explosion and we went on with holiday celebrations.

I would really recommend getting tested if you just as suspect that you or those close to you might be affected by ADHD. ADD/ADHD in adults (and women!) is somewhat new discipline so it might be hard to check oneself out (especially since in some countries it's trivialized by general practitioners as a simple gateway towards stimulants). Worst case you spend some money but the best case you get a portal to a wealth of self knowledge.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#210

Post by riffraff » Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 8:29 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #182

serial_dev wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All in all, such substances are not natural... But they are natural, aren't they? No less natural than the watermelon we are all eating (it might be cultivated), and I don't see anyone wanting to criminalize eating watermelon. Weed, tobacco, alcohol, coca leaves, poppy, they are all natural. Also, even if it's natural, it has nothing to do with its dangerousness, so I don't follow your argument. With regards to leg…

By natural, I meant, natural for regular human consumption. Not as in natural from mother earth. Alcohol and tobacco are extremely dangerous and detrimental to any society. What blows my mind is young teens, barely out of education, harping and celebrating the ability to drink. To me, that's insane. Why does a young person need to drink alcohol? When studies after studies have show how it affects human life in genera…

> Why does a young person need to drink alcohol?

I think there is a cultural aspect. As a kid in Italy (>10yo), it was "ok" to have a glass of something like beer+sprite or wine+sprite during a meal. Maybe 1-2% of alcohol, it was cool and would obviously not get you drunk nor tipsy.

Having a glass of wine during a family meal, or a beer with your pizza with friends, was likewise pretty common and done mostly because of basic gastronomic pleasure.

This is _very far_ from the binge drinking/getting wasted culture which has been prevalent in the anglosphere for a while, and that has sadly expanded to a large part of the world since.

It's not drinking that should be shunned, but getting drunk.