Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

addictionjournal.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 568 posts

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#131

Post by kunai »

olivermarks wrote: post #8

It seems virtually all stimulants used as a crutch to counter anxiety, depression, physical pain etc wind up killing off a lot of brain cells. My concern with modern (incredibly strong) Cannabis/THC is that some regular users seem to struggle with withdrawal if they don't smoke their bowls regularly, run short on weed etc.

Not even alcohol (one of the "dirtiest" drugs as far as physiological effects go) kills brain cells. I wish this myth would die. The issue is in the way they affect your dopaminic and serotonergic regulation and how this can fuck up your brain chemistry, not that they're literally killing off your brain cells.

> My concern with modern (incredibly strong) Cannabis/THC is that some regular users seem to struggle with withdrawal if they don't smoke their bowls regularly, run short on weed etc.

That said, this is a very legitimate concern I have as well. It doesn't help that a lot of stoners seem like they're in denial over the fact that they gasp have a dependence on this substance like an alcoholic or smoker does.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#132

Post by agumonkey »

xlii wrote: post #44
irjustin wrote: post #14

Since the article and the study are light on the details of "persistent" Here's the supporting data's in a bit more detail[0]. Overall this makes sense to me as an individually who personally enjoys it. The whole point of getting high is to be impaired (for me). So it's not really telling me anything new. Like drinking, I can't expect myself to be 100% functioning the next day so plan accordingly. The question is how…

Your comment strikes me cause I’ve been doing the same with alcohol - not to get drunk but to impair some of the logical thinking and analysis in the evenings. Funnily enough I started to deal with ADD/ADHD in my family recently and learned from the doctor that this kind of behavior is symptomatic in adults. Recently doc even shared this with me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32489193/ Not directing this at you par…

To cut it short, I think a tiny amount of alcohol can be a superb bargain. It allowed me to stay a bit neutral in parties (instead of crippled by anxiety and phobia). And being around people, even like a wallpaper had strange positive effect on my moral. I don't know if doing that long term (even tiny amount of beer) would harm your body, but having zero social life is also very very damaging.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#133

Post by spoiler »

kumarvvr wrote: post #46
irjustin wrote: post #14

Since the article and the study are light on the details of "persistent" Here's the supporting data's in a bit more detail[0]. Overall this makes sense to me as an individually who personally enjoys it. The whole point of getting high is to be impaired (for me). So it's not really telling me anything new. Like drinking, I can't expect myself to be 100% functioning the next day so plan accordingly. The question is how…

Another view, is that, except for the extremely strong willed, getting used to a serene state of mind is addicting and kind of counter productive. Perhaps, addictive is not the right word. But it seems to me (purely from a human nature perspective) its similar to obesity (Eating food is not "addictive", but there is a definite element of "craving" and inability to overcome that craving). All in all, such substances a…

In me, it's partially a coping mechanisms, and a method to to silence the brain demons. It's interesting that you brought up food, because I'm an emotional eater too.

I've had them under control for a while now, but the emotional eating is a struggle sometimes. I need to trick myself into not doing it.

For weed it's less of a struggle because I genuinely notice the "persistent" effects (no more than a few days in me), which effect my mental performance and emotional state.

Also, after quitting the binge I had withdrawal (I'm told for weed it's very mild, but it's horrendous nonetheless). More details to this in this video https://youtu.be/7u_cm5b1s7Y

I now smoke weed when I plan/want to for fun, and it's very occasionally...

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#134

Post by vintermann »

hooande wrote: post #78

I've known many people in silicon valley who smoke cannabis regularly (several times a week if not daily). They all seemed to be cognitively normal. Some of them function on a level I only wish I could attain. I think regular cannabis use attracts a certain type of person. That type of person can vary in their ability and intelligence, just like any type of person. This is also true of say, hardcore fans of fantasy f…

There's a theory that drug use is often about self-handicapping:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-handicapping

E.g. if someone in college does poorly because they got high all the time, maybe the reason they got high all the time was that they felt (rightly or not) that they would have done poorly anyway, and now they have the drug to blame. And maybe those who smoke a bit and still do well, do it sort of to have the excuse in reserve.

I've not much experience with cannabis, it's far less popular where I live than the US, but I can certainly see that alcohol is used as this sort of "flexible excuse", both short term and long term.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#135

Post by kunai »

WaxedChewbacca wrote: post #16
mostertoaster wrote: post #9

I wonder how much my brain is hardwired weirdly because I smoked a lot of weed from 14-19

I wouldn't assume that it did. I would focus on its remaining extreme plasticity. It seems likely that you could do an enormous amount of self-cultivation via practices like meditation.

Cannabis absolutely affects brain development if you use it consistently throughout adolescence. Don't get me wrong, I still favor legalization and decriminalization, but the number of people who like to pretend like it's some super happy wonder drug with no downsides whatsoever bother me. Like any drug, there are side effects, and this is one of them.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#136

Post by cthalupa »

isuckatcoding wrote: post #90
throwaway_4ever wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Am I supposed to just work and have a boring milquetoast existence hiking or whatever to make it to 80? When it really comes down to it, the most euphoric moments and best memories of my life have been messed up on weed and alcohol with people and music. Itd be depressing to move on and just reminisce about when times were better…

Your description of being messed up on weed actually sounds depressing. I’ll take a hike in some beautiful nature anyday over depressing night in smoking weed. You have no idea how positive an effect being outside in nature has on you.

Sometimes I go hiking. Sometimes it's with camera gear. Sometimes I go camping, or hunting. Sometimes I go into my garage and lift weights. Sometimes I take walks around the neighborhood. Sometimes I sit at home with a glass of scotch and music on. Sometimes instead of scotch, it's pot. Sometimes I have friends over, and we start making our way through my alcohol collection, and the music gets turned up, and we're dancing around like idiots in my kitchen. Sometimes I decide I want to try new things and I make half a dozen cocktails so I can have them in my repertoire while entertaining, and end up quite drunk, even while home alone. Sometimes I get high, sit on my couch, and play video games. I go out plenty (or did before the pandemic), and that frequently meant indulging in these previously mentioned vices. A favorite of mine over the pandemic has been to play the solo journaling RPG 'Thousand Year Old Vampire', and to keep the drinks flowing while I do it. I enjoy all these things, and could not replace any one of them with another.

And while I tend to not imbibe much of anything while out in nature - largely because I'm already clumsy enough - I also know hikers, including thru-hikers, who smoke every night on the trail, and talk about how wonderful that experience is. Not so much on the drinking side of things, for the thru-hikers, but I expect that is more about weight than anything.

Obviously, everything we do has some sort of impact on our bodies, and I suppose you can make an argument about the objective relative health impact of any of them.

But to try and argue that someone's subjective experience is an objectively worse one? That's silly. People can enjoy different things than you, and that doesn't make them "depressing"

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#137

Post by chanc3e »

aryamaan wrote: post #82
eurasiantiger wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not withdrawal. That is a preexisting condition.

Why do you mean?

I think they are implying OP has used weed as a crutch and accidentally obscured a real condition.

A bit like using painkillers to avoid having knee surgery. A crutch, not a solution.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#138

Post by kunai »

systemvoltage wrote: post #58
erulabs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There ought to be a name for this paradox. Maybe this is out of left field but I've called it the "stimpack & herion" problem. If I was playing a game, and I was the general of an army, and I could tell my marines to "use stimpack", which would make them move faster and be more focused, or "use herion", which would make them move slower and be less focused. A general would never order "use herion", and plenty would o…

Interesting analogy. Yeah, I tend to combine narrow observations and extrapolate them to see what happens on a societal scale. Speaking of Generals, I can imagine China/Russia drumming up pro-Marijuana narrative in US to cripple it from within. When 20% of the population is addicted to Marijuana with memory loss and obesity (munchies! hello), it is a good strategy. I mean, isn't that the reason China is banning video…

Call me crazy but you may be onto something. I don't think it's necessarily foreign actors that would take advantage of it though, moreso multinational corporations who need a sated and pliable workforce who don't think too much about their poor living conditions, lack of societal progress, lack of upward mobility, etc.

I do find it interesting that as cigarettes have waned in popularity and weed has gotten more popular, we're finding that people are less creative and innovative than ever before and there seems to be a persistent monoculture throughout the West that's extraordinarily drab. Might it have something to do with nicotine's cognitive-enhancing ability versus cannabis diminishing cognitive function? Probably not, and there's likely no way to do a cohort study on this subject, but it's an interesting question to pose regardless.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#139

Post by mellavora »

agumonkey wrote: post #132
xlii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment strikes me cause I’ve been doing the same with alcohol - not to get drunk but to impair some of the logical thinking and analysis in the evenings. Funnily enough I started to deal with ADD/ADHD in my family recently and learned from the doctor that this kind of behavior is symptomatic in adults. Recently doc even shared this with me: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32489193/ Not directing this at you par…

To cut it short, I think a tiny amount of alcohol can be a superb bargain. It allowed me to stay a bit neutral in parties (instead of crippled by anxiety and phobia). And being around people, even like a wallpaper had strange positive effect on my moral. I don't know if doing that long term (even tiny amount of beer) would harm your body, but having zero social life is also very very damaging.

Well, we are social creatures. Even the most introverted of us (finger points at self). So no surprise that being around parties/other people has a positive effect on moral.

The health benefits of the social contact almost certainly outweigh the negative health impacts of a tiny amount of alcohol.

Re: Cannabis use produces persistent cognitive impairments: meta review

#140

Post by dnh44 »

rex_lupi wrote: post #107
serial_dev wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All in all, such substances are not natural... But they are natural, aren't they? No less natural than the watermelon we are all eating (it might be cultivated), and I don't see anyone wanting to criminalize eating watermelon. Weed, tobacco, alcohol, coca leaves, poppy, they are all natural. Also, even if it's natural, it has nothing to do with its dangerousness, so I don't follow your argument. With regards to leg…

They are not "natural" in the sense that humans don't consume ethyl alcohol to survive, in fact it is often quite damaging to biological systems. Apart from some microbes I'm not aware of any other organisms that use alcohol as their energy source. Alcohol/thc/caffeine/nicotine (you name it) do not fall in the "natural" diet of humans. Most psychoactive substances are metabolites which plants/fungi store in them to d…

Humans aren't the only mammals on this planet that consume alcohol.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2014/07/01/drunken-monkeys-and-our...

Post reply on HN