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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#781

Post by babypuncher »

idontwantthis wrote: post #778
thrashh wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re not talking smoking though We’re talking second hand smoke Who exactly is looking to get some second hand smoke in their face while avoiding actually smoking?

Secondhand smoke is the cost of being in a bar outside of the US. Good luck making friends with European expats without some secondhand smoke.

I can't stand the smell of cigarettes, many of them make me feel nauseous. This may be because I'm young enough that public smoking has been banned for most of my life, so I never ever got used to the smell.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#782

Post by ummonk »

avar wrote: post #723
jillianschuller wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently become pregnant, a lot of the guidance for expectant mothers echos these blanket recommendations (sushi, deli meats, hot baths etc). On the topic of alcohol, FASD is a massive concern, but it's known that it's correlated to how much you drink and how frequently you drink (enjoying a glass of wine once a month is very different than binge drinking multiple times throughout your pregnancy). The thing is…

The "no amount proven safe" mantra is refuted by epidemiological studies on the subject. There's no evidence that modern drinking is something to worry about. It's well known that pregnant women become more risk avarse, and humans being bad at risk assessment in general they tend to channel those worries in relatively unproductive ways. E.g. worry about obscure food safety issues, as opposed to something like traffic…

Epidemiological studies might not be very strong evidence though, since moderate alcohol consumption is likely correlated with class. And inversely correlated with the use of more dangerous drugs.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#783

Post by pvarangot »

kaba0 wrote: post #717
avar wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s hard to find any benefit to smoking, first hand or second. The same is true about recreational travel. People expose themselves to high levels of radiation and travel risk purely for recreational purposes. Smokers inhale carcinogenic substances for recreational purposes.

Is the risk for the two even remotely in the same ballpark?

Well, it depends on how much you smoke and how much you travel. Thing is if I smoke even one cigarette like as a digestive after a big dinner once every four months I have to pay 600 dollars of extra health insurance per year because of how all this bullshit messaging about how nicotine works. And of course it's to protect something like only 35% of the human population that will get addicted to it.

I stopped smoking for months or years many times and I never ever had any side effect except maybe I'm a bit tired the first days. I don't even put up extra weight or anything like that. I feel like an adult baby being treated like I need financial punishment to help me be a healthy person.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#784

Post by tambourine_man »

idontwantthis wrote: post #778
thrashh wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re not talking smoking though We’re talking second hand smoke Who exactly is looking to get some second hand smoke in their face while avoiding actually smoking?

Secondhand smoke is the cost of being in a bar outside of the US. Good luck making friends with European expats without some secondhand smoke.

Europe is the exception here, not the US.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#785

Post by ummonk »

shadowofneptune wrote: post #746
solox3 wrote: post #202

I am fine with abstinence as a general recommendation, but critical thinking pointed out two issues with the WHF Policy Brief, which I suppose I have read in sufficient depth: 1. There is no citation on the sentence, "Recent evidence has found that no level of alcohol consumption is safe for health." This is really the only line we are interested in. 2. There is no comparison on the effects of alcohol on the body by…

What the studies have found is that drinking in moderation (at or below the 1–2 standard drinks a day limit) does not have cause a very large impact on life expectancy. This raises sharply after exceeding the limit. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sorting-out-the-health-e... Personally unsure whether a reduced year or two of life is really that significant.

That article seems to back up the idea that no level of alcohol is safe, given that low / moderate alcohol consumption is still associated with a small decrease in life expectancy.

(Though there are always potential confounding factors in such studies)

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#786

Post by function_seven »

recursive wrote: post #589
kevinmchugh wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not obvious that alcohol reduces stress.

It's obvious to me that it reduces my stress . No study could convince me otherwise.

Always interesting when one group reports a subjective phenomenon, and someone else refutes their experience by pointing to an X mg/dL change in some serum test.

Obviously the experience is what matters, not what the machine says. Alcohol increases cortisol levels? Ok, all I know is I feel nice and relaxed right now.

Of course if I overdo it, or do it too often, then the next day will demand the debt repaid, or my baseline will shift upward. Ok, so don't overdo it.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#787

Post by azth »

zarzavat wrote: post #763

My favourite quote on the matter: But claiming there is no ‘safe’ level does not seem an argument for abstention. There is no safe level of driving, but government do not recommend that people avoid driving. Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention. https://medium.com/wintoncentre/the-risks-of-alcohol-again-2... I understand why they want to dispel the persistent my…

> But claiming there is no ‘safe’ level does not seem an argument for abstention. There is no safe level of driving, but government do not recommend that people avoid driving.

False equivalence. Drinking is not necessary for life (and it's harmful as we see here), but driving is required for many people's livelihood.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#788

Post by azth »

selimthegrim wrote: post #629
azth wrote: post #572

> They ask you about wine (khamr) and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." https://quran.com/2/219 > O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants (khamr), gambling, [sacrificing on] stone altars [to other than God], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. https://quran.com/5…

This might lead one to the reading that intoxication rather than alcohol is prohibited.

That's correct, all intoxicants are prohibited in Islam. The word (khamr) refers to any substance that masks a person's thinking ability (the word "khimaar" is a face veil, and both khimaar and khamr derive from the same root). And it's not a reading as much as an explicit text:

> "Every intoxicant is Khamr and every intoxicant is unlawful."

https://sunnah.com/nasai:5699

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#789

Post by afcapel »

idontwantthis wrote: post #778
thrashh wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re not talking smoking though We’re talking second hand smoke Who exactly is looking to get some second hand smoke in their face while avoiding actually smoking?

Secondhand smoke is the cost of being in a bar outside of the US. Good luck making friends with European expats without some secondhand smoke.

In general European countries have bans on smoking in public places much stricter than the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans#Smoking_b...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#790

Post by wyclif »

idontwantthis wrote: post #778
thrashh wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re not talking smoking though We’re talking second hand smoke Who exactly is looking to get some second hand smoke in their face while avoiding actually smoking?

Secondhand smoke is the cost of being in a bar outside of the US. Good luck making friends with European expats without some secondhand smoke.

Used to be that bars were the place you went in the US to smoke and drink. Since you can't smoke in bars (Note: "pubs" for UK readers) anymore, there's less of a reason to go to them, and it incentivizes drinking at home. Which has led to a lot of bars closing and fewer of them than ever.
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