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70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

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Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#71

Post by 62951413 »

Is it conceivable that the attraction of the Bay Area will steadily decline as a result? Or most people here still expect it to recover once offices are open again and life is back to normal?

I love the climate myself. But on this very forum every other day people from CA discuss things which don't exactly justify 10% of income lost. In addition to the usual RE prices, AP classes, and surge in crime anecdata I see curious facts such as these:

* https://www.meritechcapital.com/blog/2021-review-select-saas... ("Company Headquarters" in particular)

* https://www.saastr.com/the-third-wave-of-migration-from-the-...

Remote work would make CA residents not competitive with people from saner states on CoL alone. I believe most big companies are still planning on something like 3 days onsite later this year. But historically startups have employed a lot of us too. Could the job market diverge into startups in Austin and BigCo in the SFBA?

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#72

Post by MattGaiser »

anonporridge wrote: post #30
echelon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't the only levers. Imagine a three day work week. Or part time work, letting you also maintain your FANGA job.

You'd get access to a fairly large pool of the "almost wealthy" who have enough wealth saved and invested that it will grow to a nice sum over the decades, but still need some income to avoid touching it over that period. i.e. those in leanFIRE, baristaFIRE, or coastFIRE positions.

I am curious why nobody tries to build a workforce for non urgent projects out of this group.

I see charities scrimping and saving to pay for highly skilled people that they really do not need on a full time basis and must scratch my head and wonder why.

You could pay 60,000 for a not great dev. Or you could pay 30,000 for a part time dev and could easily land someone who regularly earns 150K.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#73

Post by crisdux »

I can’t help but be a bit of a contrarian. I’m still skeptical regarding remote work being the optimal workplace strategy. I think there will emerge a competitive edge to companies that have their employees working in office settings, at least part of the time.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#74

Post by tikhonj »

nostrebored wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

I honestly don't understand how any startup can even hope to compete if they don't offer remote options. Hiring is incredibly tight right now, and I'm sure glad my options are "anybody within ~2 timezones" over basically only people within a 15 mile radius of my office because traffic is horrendous in my city. Not to mention, how have companies not realized how to build robust remote company cultures over the past 2…

Because everyone who seriously invests money in businesses knows that there’s a performance hit you take as a remote company. People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason. Engineering is one segment where this penalty seems to be lower. However, engineers seem to be unable to understand that every other function functions better in person. The tradeoff you’re hoping to make is that the…

People keep on saying this but it's just not obviously true.

> People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason.

Companies do so many suboptimal things that this argument isn't credible. We've seen how many organizations can barely limp through a "digital transformation", so why should we expect them to be operating anywhere near optimally along other axes? They could just as easily be paying for office space because of tradition or internal momentum, because it confers status or because it gives executives a feeling of control. (This isn't even speculation: I've actually heard executives say that they want people back in the office to keep an eye on them and make sure they're working hard.)

It's not that engineers "don't understand" that "every other function functions better in person", it's that they disagree—with a pretty reasonable basis at that. Companies pushed open offices on the back of the same kind of baseless assumptions contravening both research and individuals' direct experience, and the push to return everyone to the office isn't any different or better-supported.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#75

Post by cjbgkagh »

Natsu wrote: post #47
dag11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myself and many people I know can't stand permanent WFH and specifically seek jobs with offices.

I prefer full WFH myself, but I think a lot depends on the family situation, too. Some people have small kids and it's hard for them to WFH, though people are more understanding if some little kid walks into an online meeting yelling about something these days. Other people just like the structure of it or they have a good desk setup at work and not as good a place to work from at home.

I've seen people Work From Someone Else's Home. I think that would be the best of both worlds for me. I'd set up a second workstation in my 'office' for colleagues that are also friends.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#76

Post by alar44 »

jrockway wrote: post #33
tibbar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the side effects of the pandemic is that there is now a global remote-first tech workforce. Working remotely is a skill that companies might not have wanted to gamble on their people learning, but now everyone has this skill. There's momentum in this direction now and changing it would actually require increased costs for many companies - more office space, fewer employees in low-cost areas, etc.

I like remote work and all, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure we've figured it out yet. All that we've gotten is forced equality; we aren't bringing in remote workers as second class citizens relative to the people that work in the office. That's a good start, and probably a necessary step on the way towards a "tipping point". But people don't have the same rapport that they do in person, decisions are tediou…

As someone who worked for an MSP during the pandemic for a large variety of different businesses... it's figured out. VPN, email, OneDrive/SharePoint, videoconferencing. Unless your job is "guy who gives hugs to people in the office" it's just not that hard.

Management just thinks it's icky.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#77

Post by MattGaiser »

nostrebored wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

I honestly don't understand how any startup can even hope to compete if they don't offer remote options. Hiring is incredibly tight right now, and I'm sure glad my options are "anybody within ~2 timezones" over basically only people within a 15 mile radius of my office because traffic is horrendous in my city. Not to mention, how have companies not realized how to build robust remote company cultures over the past 2…

Because everyone who seriously invests money in businesses knows that there’s a performance hit you take as a remote company. People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason. Engineering is one segment where this penalty seems to be lower. However, engineers seem to be unable to understand that every other function functions better in person. The tradeoff you’re hoping to make is that the…

Companies do all manner of things because "that's how they have always been done."

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#78

Post by MattGaiser »

arrakis2021 wrote: post #61
nostrebored wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because everyone who seriously invests money in businesses knows that there’s a performance hit you take as a remote company. People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason. Engineering is one segment where this penalty seems to be lower. However, engineers seem to be unable to understand that every other function functions better in person. The tradeoff you’re hoping to make is that the…

This. As someone who works remotely and loves it, I’ve observed this on HN for years. It’s like engineers can’t (or won’t?) acknowledge that other roles in an organization go beyond staring at lines of code on a computer screen. Hell, even product managers I know like coming in to an office to collaborate on the big whiteboard wall they can’t fit inside their home.

You can drag the other roles in if you wish. The entire company does not need to be remote. Just the engineering team.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#79

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nostrebored wrote: post #53
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

I honestly don't understand how any startup can even hope to compete if they don't offer remote options. Hiring is incredibly tight right now, and I'm sure glad my options are "anybody within ~2 timezones" over basically only people within a 15 mile radius of my office because traffic is horrendous in my city. Not to mention, how have companies not realized how to build robust remote company cultures over the past 2…

Because everyone who seriously invests money in businesses knows that there’s a performance hit you take as a remote company. People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason. Engineering is one segment where this penalty seems to be lower. However, engineers seem to be unable to understand that every other function functions better in person. The tradeoff you’re hoping to make is that the…

"People haven’t been paying for offices for the last ten years for no reason."

Ah yes, the magical world where office politics and power dynamics does not exist.

Back in the real world at a certain corp I am closely familiar with there are 3 redundant projects that do the exact same thing and it takes 2 months for a new joiner to be issued with their work computer, and two more to get an admin account so they can start development.

Re: 70% of startups offer remote work options as hiring heats up, YC data shows

#80

Post by andrew_ »

I turned on messages (and InMail) on LinkedIn 48 hours ago out of sheer morbid curiosity as to what would happen. At last count I received 124 new messages from recruiters. It's insane how thirsty they are right now.

As for the positions; I'm being offered 40-60% of my current salary, and they're in the same range below someone with the same amount experience in the industry niche I inhabit. (That's a pretty good indicator of desperation and keyword-carpet-bombing) All of them that I've opened have been remote, which is notable.

Much like the mortgage industry before 2008, recruiting is a numbers game right now and appears to be staffed by a lot of folks who have no idea what they're doing or what they're offering.

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