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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#691
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-me... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/health/red-meat-heart-can... Good overview of the controversy.

Media reporting is the literal worst way to learn about scientific reporting and studies

What's a good way? Certainly not reading individual scientific studies yourself.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to feel some dissonance about this, you might note that this is the exact language the CDC uses for things like secondhand smoke -- "There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke" -- which everybody nods along to and accepts without much scrutiny. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... Meanwhile, when it's something like, say, cosmic radiation exposure from c…

The CDC has been unfortunately hopelessly politicized. It happened long before the pandemic. OTOH, I would make the differentiating point that air travel has positive benefits to society and costs and one has to weigh those against each other. You can’t make the blanket statement “earth would be better off if air travel went away completely.” It’s hard to find any benefit to smoking, first hand or second, so it’s eas…

>> It's hard to find any benefit to smoking...

Ritualistically, as an exercise in getting out of one's 'normal' consciousness, it can present useful information for self study. In habitual form, it is of course very destructive.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to feel some dissonance about this, you might note that this is the exact language the CDC uses for things like secondhand smoke -- "There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke" -- which everybody nods along to and accepts without much scrutiny. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... Meanwhile, when it's something like, say, cosmic radiation exposure from c…

The CDC has been unfortunately hopelessly politicized. It happened long before the pandemic. OTOH, I would make the differentiating point that air travel has positive benefits to society and costs and one has to weigh those against each other. You can’t make the blanket statement “earth would be better off if air travel went away completely.” It’s hard to find any benefit to smoking, first hand or second, so it’s eas…

This isn't politics, it's safety. I accept the argument that the CDC has become overly innumerate in how to live a healthy life, but it's not a liberal or conservative idea to be cautious.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#694
post #247

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

Personal anecdote but I disagree. I started smoking pot regularly after college and moving to a state where it was legal. It mostly displaced alcohol in my social circle. I thought it was harmless and 'superior' to drinking. I cannot have pot around anymore and was somewhat difficult to finally quit. While the consequences of pot addiction and difficulty in quitting are much lower than that of alcohol; the barrier to…

Exactly, with alcohol I know play that's my 2 drinks of the night on weekends, call it a day.

Weed : the effects can last for days, paranoia, delusion, short term memory loss, not wanting to socialize, depression.

Sample size of one, I know! Your mileage may vary .

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mind is part of the body Also contrary to popular belief, alcohol does not heal or help the mind unless perhaps you have methanol poisoning or are in the middle of a panic attack

> The mind is part of the body is it...?

Absolutely, and not only in a strictly physical sense (i.e. it's contained within it). Mental acuity into old age is strengthened by continued exercise and fitness - damaging the body so that it is less able to physically operate damages the potential of the mind.

Even if you want to step into the realm of the philosophy of mind[1] - there still are rather clear portions of the mind that are physically linked and a pretty wide consensus on the feedback of bodily strength to a healthy mind. Modern dualism accepts that a lot of mental functions are either enabled or assisted by our physical brain goop and classical dualism still assumed the definition of some crossover point where the metaphysical abstract expression of thought was translated into physical signals that triggered actions in the body - the existence of pain reactions necessitates a fair amount of our mental processing having the direct involvement of physical systems.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to feel some dissonance about this, you might note that this is the exact language the CDC uses for things like secondhand smoke -- "There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke" -- which everybody nods along to and accepts without much scrutiny. Source: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/seco... Meanwhile, when it's something like, say, cosmic radiation exposure from c…

The CDC has been unfortunately hopelessly politicized. It happened long before the pandemic. OTOH, I would make the differentiating point that air travel has positive benefits to society and costs and one has to weigh those against each other. You can’t make the blanket statement “earth would be better off if air travel went away completely.” It’s hard to find any benefit to smoking, first hand or second, so it’s eas…

As we've seen in the past 2 years, there's no real positive benefit to society to frequent business flying (at pre-pandemic levels).

Like smoking, we don't need to completely ban air travel. The equivalent would be severely limiting it (for example, prohibiting business flying).

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#697
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of studies showing benefits. Yes. And these studies are being exposed as the product of alcohol lobby. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/3/21/17139036/he... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6055701/

I am perfectly aware of p-hackng. I still don’t believe it without actual evidence, I get strong vibes of people wanting this to be true which would take more than a little evidence to overcome.

It's funny hearing this, because it's so clear to me that the opposite is the case. If you were an alien and you observed alcohol use on Earth for a few years you'd have no trouble concluding that it's almost certainly harmful even in small doses.

But humans like alcohol, so they do not want this to be true.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mind is part of the body Also contrary to popular belief, alcohol does not heal or help the mind unless perhaps you have methanol poisoning or are in the middle of a panic attack

Alcohol can be part of having a fun time, and having a fun time occasionally is good for your mental health (as opposed to the physical health of your brain, which appears to be what you're talking about).

This is certainly an opinion, but I think there are plenty of alternatives out there that can do a better job at enabling fun having without causing nearly as much bodily damage or functional impairment. We have a variety of choices in both the natural and pharmaceutical realms.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#699
post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a rubbish comparison. Of course no amount of driving is safe—that’s commonsensical. You always have a chance of getting harmed when you decide to drive a car. But driving a car has a clear utility which is non-optional in a lot of cases. The utility of recreational alcohol use is, on the other hand, more akin to joyriding—so similar to a completely optional subset of car driving.

It's impossible to eat many foods without ingesting ethanol, including bread. The advice that "no amount" of ethanol is safe is ludicrous, including from a biological perspective, as the human body is well equipped to safely handle ingestion of ethanol in moderate amounts.

That’s an illuminating argument and not at all just a technicality that disproves nothing. Consider me enlightened.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> alcohol does not heal or help the mind Is it not possible that some people find alcohol in reasonable doses to be a net positive mentally and mood-wise?

The sibling posts make the right point: lots of things are objectively bad for your body, but your emotions are part of it, too. If alcohol or whatever makes you happier, then it's "good for you." Until you have so much that it's not good for you anymore. It's the same for sweet desserts: why TF should you deprive yourself of all of them? Just keep it in moderation.

We could imagine a very different society with much less consumption of alcohol but people still being equally happy. If someone is made to feel unhappy when they don't drink because everyone around them is doing so, the fact that then consuming alcohol makes them happier shouldn't be pointed to as evidence the person is making a good trade off between bodily harm and happiness.
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