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The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

hakaimagazine.com

11–20 of 106 posts

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#11
post #4

I'd say ask the Octopi first. Wait, can't do that? But you were about to do it anyway ? That's why you can't be friends.

So you can’t be friends with mute people or people you do not share a language with? There are far more telling ways to determine friendship than someone saying ‘yes, let’s be friends’. Even between those who do speak the same language.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#12
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty amazing the extent of understanding you can achieve with an animal. After a year or so raising my pup, it feels like we have both picked up certain signals to communicate. He paws at me and then sits by the front door when he needs to go to the bathroom, for instance (although sometimes he cleverly abuses this because he just wants to go outside and play with me during worktime, but I can't fault him for…

Dogs have lived alongside humans for millennia. They're genetically engineered animals (in the oldschool way - by breeding and selection, not in a test tube). And we've bred them largely by rewarding their ability to interact with us. Dogs are obviously quite artificial species in that sense

That's a good point. They've definitely been bred for their ability to communicate with us. I know it's a bit tangential, but I do like the fact we have a kind of sister species in that way. I sometimes wonder what it would be like if our ancestors had instead domesticated another animal to that extent (besides the cat, I suppose). In an alternate universe, maybe we'd have smallish bears as trusted companions :-)

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#13
post #4

I'd say ask the Octopi first. Wait, can't do that? But you were about to do it anyway ? That's why you can't be friends.

Seems like Kooistra asked in the obvious polite way -- sit down (i.e. render oneself less mobile) at a non-threatening range and let them choose to approach or not. Is that not consent?

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#14
post #4

I'd say ask the Octopi first. Wait, can't do that? But you were about to do it anyway ? That's why you can't be friends.

Not all communication is verbal. You can't be [friends in the same way you are friends with humans] an octopus because they are not human. I'm friends with my cat. We have a mutual social relationship and he doesn't speak a lick of English.

I like to think I'm friends with my cat but in my heart I know I'm a combination of a roommate and staff.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all communication is verbal. You can't be [friends in the same way you are friends with humans] an octopus because they are not human. I'm friends with my cat. We have a mutual social relationship and he doesn't speak a lick of English.

It is pretty amazing the extent of understanding you can achieve with an animal. After a year or so raising my pup, it feels like we have both picked up certain signals to communicate. He paws at me and then sits by the front door when he needs to go to the bathroom, for instance (although sometimes he cleverly abuses this because he just wants to go outside and play with me during worktime, but I can't fault him for…

Dogs are the champions of human communication. They are the first domesticated specie, not only they were predisposed to it, being pack animals. But they also had 15000 years of evolution to perfect it. Cats are not to the same level as dogs but they are still very competent domesticated animals.

Octopuses, by comparison, are aliens. In fact, someone said that if we want to have an idea of what alien intelligence could look like, look at octopuses. They are intelligent in a very non-human way.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#16
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty amazing the extent of understanding you can achieve with an animal. After a year or so raising my pup, it feels like we have both picked up certain signals to communicate. He paws at me and then sits by the front door when he needs to go to the bathroom, for instance (although sometimes he cleverly abuses this because he just wants to go outside and play with me during worktime, but I can't fault him for…

Dogs have lived alongside humans for millennia. They're genetically engineered animals (in the oldschool way - by breeding and selection, not in a test tube). And we've bred them largely by rewarding their ability to interact with us. Dogs are obviously quite artificial species in that sense

Having grown up with a lot of domesticated animals, it's amazing how much dogs can communicate on our terms, compared to, say, a horse. Horses can communicate quite a bit, but you typically have to understand horses and meet them where they're at before you can effectivity communicate with them. Dogs do a much better job of trying different ways to get their point across to you until you get it.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#17
post #4

I'd say ask the Octopi first. Wait, can't do that? But you were about to do it anyway ? That's why you can't be friends.

Not all communication is verbal. You can't be [friends in the same way you are friends with humans] an octopus because they are not human. I'm friends with my cat. We have a mutual social relationship and he doesn't speak a lick of English.

You should read about experiments where they gave MDMA to octopus who are usually very unsocial… spoiler: it has an effect. They are fascinating animals.

They are highly intelligent, but have one big problem: their max. life expectation is about 5 years. Usually the mother dies at birth and they grow up alone from an early age, hence no social development (even to a degree where they are very hostile to other octopus).

So they have not a way of building culture like humans, like thr passing on knowledge to the younger generations. Though they kind of have 8 brains.

If they didn‘t have these problems, we might be talking differently about them.

One day I will open a training area with octopus & invest millions in trying to extend life expectancy & social behaviour of octopuses and train them to take over the world.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#18
post #6

Octopi are remarkably intelligent creatures, as any good aquarium owner will tell you.

An even better aquarium owner wouldn't have them at all. My Octopus Teacher is a fantastic look into the life of an octopus, their intellectual capacity, and their propensity to interact with humans.

Why would that be better to not have them? It sounds a bit presumptive of a universal morality rather than a logical statement.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#19

Octopi are remarkably intelligent creatures, as any good aquarium owner will tell you.

(waiting for the recurring comments, that 2 x octopus -> octopodes or octopuses but not octopi since it's not latin 2nd declension, but rather misspelled greek)

I think 'octopodes' should be considered incorrect on the basis that the vast majority of even the people using it are probably not pronouncing it correctly.

Re: The mystery of social behavior in octopuses

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(waiting for the recurring comments, that 2 x octopus -> octopodes or octopuses but not octopi since it's not latin 2nd declension, but rather misspelled greek)

Let’s not encourage the unnecessary language pedantry.

Pedantry is no felony when discussing an eight-armed genius.

I personally settle for nothing less than "octopodes," with the accent on the second of its four syllables.

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