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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#621
For anyone curious to collect, explore, and becoming mindful of their own personal data more, there's a nice free alcohol tracker app called Less (iOS only) [1][2] from the same company that created the fasting app Zero.

[1]: https://lessdrinks.com/

[2]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/less-alcohol-tracker/id1484828...

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#622
post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have some place to read this? Everywhere credible I look seems to still say it. For example, https://progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/red_meat

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/30/research-red-me... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/health/red-meat-heart-can... Good overview of the controversy.

Media reporting is the literal worst way to learn about scientific reporting and studies

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#623
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people have purposely been doing a lot of slavery for thousands of years as well. took us some time but we got over the whole "its been fine for millions of years so it must be good or at least fine" to get to the root of the issue. once we found that, slavery was abolished pretty much everywhere. my point is, why bring "societal pressure of 500 years" into an argument for an inherently bad thing. just thinking out l…

Slavery is not alcohol, and equating the two is a very obvious strawman argument

The point was the "doing something for a long time is not a good reason to view it as okay"

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#624
post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but not all of the water - you would be talking about many gallons.

Please consult literally any intro guide to home brewing. They all call for boiling all of the water. I have brewed dozens of batches of beer at home and always boil all of it. I don't know as much about commercial brewing but I've never heard or read of partial boiling as a common technique in commercial brewing. (There is such a thing as "raw ale", but the fact that it has a special name to indicate the lack of boi…

Is it possible that boiling the water and then adding the yeast is a modern practice? People in older times didn't know about yeasts (they didn't know anything about microorganisms). So they couldn't go and buy brewer's yeast from the shop to make beer, they'd have to culture it by natural fermentation. So they couldn't boil the beer before it fermented. Although they could perhaps keep a culture from an early batch and then boil the water of subsequent batches, until they needed to replenish their culture?

That's how traditional yogurt making works. If you ask most people who know how to make yogurt they'll tell you: 1) you boil the milk, 2) you let it cool, and 3) you add yogurt. The yogurt is the fermentation culture (lactic acid bacteria rather than yeasts) and while making yogurt propagates it, at some point someone needs to make yogurt without already having yogurt. The only way to do that is to start with milk that wasn't boiled because boiling kills the culture (the bacteria in yogurt are thermophiles but they won't survive being boiled!). Perhaps something like that happened with brewing also?

Or maybe it's more like modern cheesemaking? Nowadays most cheese is made with pasteurised milk. To make cheese, the milk has to be cultured with lactic acid bacteria, but pasteurisation kills those off. So modern cheesemakers add lyophilised culture to their milk after they pasteurise it. Traditionally though the only way to obtain culture was to leave the milk alone, use it raw. Back in the day people didn't even know about the existence of bacteria so they had no reason to pasteurise their cheesemaking milk in the first place.

So how old is the practice of boiling the water for beer? Is it possible it's something that's only done today thanks to the knowledge of microorganisms?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely acceptable to knowingly exchange damage to body for healing to mind, and vice versa as well. But I still appreciate that science is gradually making clear that alcohol is not perfectly harmless, and that a large-scale health foundation is finally admitting that.

The mind is part of the body Also contrary to popular belief, alcohol does not heal or help the mind unless perhaps you have methanol poisoning or are in the middle of a panic attack

> The mind is part of the body

is it...?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#626

Although I live in a place where weed is legal, I don’t use it. I enjoy the occasional glass of a nice scotch, though, and I love a good stout or porter beer. This is where it gets a little strange for me: by every metric I can think of, I’d be better off replacing alcohol with weed. There seem to be fewer negative effects, it’s not a source of empty calories, and looks like a better recreational drug in every way. A…

> I just can’t imagine using a vape or popping an edible in the same way I might pour a little glass of whisky before settling down for the evening.

Every drug has its uses, I guess. Different effects for different situations. I can't imagine a social setting smoking weed to, it has to be alcohol for me.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#627
post #202

I am fine with abstinence as a general recommendation, but critical thinking pointed out two issues with the WHF Policy Brief, which I suppose I have read in sufficient depth: 1. There is no citation on the sentence, "Recent evidence has found that no level of alcohol consumption is safe for health." This is really the only line we are interested in. 2. There is no comparison on the effects of alcohol on the body by…

I've noticed that most health recommendations like these do not have any evidence associated with them, or a description of the actual risks. It seems that the doctors and health officials who write them have the evidence, but don't believe that the public needs to see it and rather should just go with whatever they say.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you see a study that purports to show health benefits of drinking check to see if it distinguishes lifelong teetotalers vs recovering alcoholics. Lifelong teetotalers are much healthier than an alcoholic who's quit drinking, on average. The studies, at least in the US, should also control for wealth.

Bingo. A lot of studies that purport health benefits from drinking are comparing "sick quitters" who drank themselves into health problems to normal people who have the occasional drink and don't bother to control for socioeconomic status

Ah, thank you, I knew the phenomenon had a name and couldn't remember "sick quitters"

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#629
post #572

> They ask you about wine (khamr) and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." https://quran.com/2/219 > O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants (khamr), gambling, [sacrificing on] stone altars [to other than God], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. https://quran.com/5…

This might lead one to the reading that intoxication rather than alcohol is prohibited.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but wine makes food taste infinitely better. I don't want to eat my rare filet with a glass of water, I want to eat it with and chilled bottle of natural Syrah from the North Rhone (preferably Dard et Ribo)

You chill red vine? Savage.

Why yes, I freeze all my candy.
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