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Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

nytimes.com

71–80 of 184 posts

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#71

From the title it seems like Mr. or Dr. Libor died. For a paragraph, it is cute to have Libor personified. Doing it until the end of the story feels a bit artificial to me.

I enjoyed it, and I'm happy when writers practice their craft with a bit of humor.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

legally the new definition of 3 month Libor is sofr + 26.161bps

Completely tangentially related: I love basis points. Up until I started working in the FinTech I could not grasp the need for it... but after much repeating "x% plus 3%" and then having to clarify that is 300 basis points and not x*1.03, it got my eyes opened.

It's also useful for negotiating rates. Saying you want a rate to be .2% lower is awkward and wordy. Saying 'can we take it down 20 bips?' sounds much more pro ;).

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#74
post #62
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it clickbait? LIBOR is omnipresent in finance and it is being killed. Sterling LIBOR is already dead for example.

Well: 1. Its LIBOR, not Libor 2. LIBOR is not a number, its a rate. Thats literally what the "R" stands for 3. LIBOR cant die, as its not a person Its just an awful title because it calls LIBOR a number, which its not, then goes on to treat it as a human, which its also not.

It's a tongue in cheek article in the NY Times. NY has a lot of finance folks. To a lot of finance folks, libor has been a meaningful number for a long time and a million contracts are based on it.

As for "treating it as a human", the financial industry has long used the term "mr market". Ie it's sort of an inside joke.

To the target audience it is not an awful title, nor an awful article.

As for the semantics of numbers v rates - the rate is specified in numbers. And LIBOR v Libor - the number was used so extensively for so long many people didn't even know what the acronym meant. It's like correcting someone for calling a tissue a kleenex.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#75

I was working at an investment bank (as a developer) when this scandal hit. My entire department was laid off as a result. Not because we were involved or complicit in the scandal, but because the scandal indirectly caused a big financial hit to the bank and we were part of the cost cutting measures. It was a traumatic and tragic moment for me at the time. But in hindsight it was the event that lead to my eyes being…

I had a similar nudge into going starting my own thing - I’d been at Refco (a now defunct brokerage) in ‘05 when everything went pop, because they’d been hiding half a billion of bad debt - I saw which way the wind was blowing and scurried away like a rat from a sinking ship.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a literary device to make a very boring topic interesting for mainstream readers.

A giant London banking scam touching on something that may even have been involved in the reader's mortgage contract, is not exactly a boring topic.

> may even have been involved in the reader's mortgage contract

I personally find finance pretty interesting, but mortgage contracts are pretty much the definition of boring for many people.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#77
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It measures the answer to the hypothetical question "If a another bank with good credit came to you right now to borrow (overnight/1W/1M/3M) in (USD/EUR/GBP/CHF/JPY) what rate would you offer them?" Which is a proxy for the banks' willingless to lend. (It had a less quoted counterpart, LIBID the London Interbank Bid Rate, where would you borrow at.)

ELI5 Why not simply measure the actual trading activity for exactly those activities the previous day?

1) easier said than done - in general these are often OTC markets without clearing houses - that being said not insurmountable difficulties but not zero-cost either. 2) the previous days trades are backward looking, not forward looking. What’s the big deal you say, it’s just a day? We’ll think about driving by using your rear view mirror — you do fine until to hit a turn then things get a little sketchy, and a sharp turn can kill you.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#79

When I first heard about LIBOR in 2002, I was surprised that the number is just based on a survey of bankers. Surely there would be accuracy issues with that? But at that time I was young and had no finance experience, so though that the adults in the room knew best. Turns out not! I don't think the base problem is that people shaded their numbers one way or another, it's that the system is designed wrong.

The more I've learned of the banking system, the more examples of this I see. It seems that much of the banking system was designed by bottom-line-oriented, non-systems-thinkers, who just wanted an immediate, good-enough solution to a problem. Accuracy, reproducibility, scalability, systemic integrity, and similar concerns often weren't a factor.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#80
post #6

I have an adjustable rate mortgage based on LIBOR and the lender still has not said what they plan to do. The presumed replacement rate (SOFR) seems to be pegged near 0% which would be good.

legally the new definition of 3 month Libor is sofr + 26.161bps

Absolutely not true, don't know where you got that idea.
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