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No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

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Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can flavor possibly considered an objective metric?

In the sense that alcohol beverages sit on your tongue and most have a designed flavor, of which there are many varieties to enjoy. But I suppose you're right, marijuana smoke does have a flavor, and you may prefer that to any alcoholic beverage. But granting that it's not objective, it still something one could point to (and I would) as a reason for preferring alcoholic drinks.

Most people looking for flavor aren't smoking. Vape products these days are designed with specific flavor profiles. I'm not talking about the strange mango/bubblegum/etc flavors, I'm saying most weed itself has designed flavor for extracts these days. In the same way that orange juice is a design flavor (manufacturers will work with the brand to combine sugar/juice/oils/scents/pulp ratios), most dab vape concentrates are reduced to their bare components then recombined to achieve a flavor profile desired. Want it more skunky? More piney? Sharper? Softer? It's all achievable and designed.

The industry has changed drastically in the last decade. Consider smoked weed to be analogous to moonshine when comparing it with alcohol. That's not a dis towards flower, but many products are just as heavily designed as a bottled beer or scotch is these days.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I find the claim "no level of alcohol consumption is safe" hyperbolic. You could claim with far more justification that "no amount of driving is safe" since you could be killed pulling out of your driveway but I think most people who drive on a daily basis would find this claim odd. "safety" is a relative, not an absolute condition, since in some sense being alive is unsafe.

That is a weird comparison. No one is forcing you to drink alcohol, but you might be forced to drive to the office. One is avoidable, the other one is not. Or if you want to be even more precise: One is easily avoidable and the other might cost you your job.

No one is forcing you to drive to work either. Many people in don't even have a license, yet make it to work each day. You even said it, "might be forced" meaning there are possibilities in which you aren't.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I find it baffling when people think that doctors know what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition. Maybe things have changed in recent years, and that would be great, but in my experience and from the anecdotes of others, my conception of what doctors understand is the opposite of what you describe. Granted, I do agree that the science actually hasn't changed that much , and that doctors who do r…

> People want their doctors to not know what they're doing? No, you're right, people who go to a doctor certainly don't want their individual physician to be incompetent. I believe parent was talking about a less specific, somewhat "anti-establishment" point of view. Folks who feel that they've been failed by medical doctors, for example -- a chronic condition that they can't get help with. Or people who have other r…

Ah ok, then I misinterpreted.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#444
post #202

I am fine with abstinence as a general recommendation, but critical thinking pointed out two issues with the WHF Policy Brief, which I suppose I have read in sufficient depth: 1. There is no citation on the sentence, "Recent evidence has found that no level of alcohol consumption is safe for health." This is really the only line we are interested in. 2. There is no comparison on the effects of alcohol on the body by…

To point 1. In the brief I find at the red download link [1] contains the line “ Based on recent evidence, it has been concluded that there is “no safe level of alcohol consumption”(5).” The reference points to an article from The Lancet [2] [1] https://world-heart-federation.org/wp-content/uploads/WHF-Po... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Yes but "The Lancet"

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#445
post #162

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. In all my (many) years, I have found no better path to becoming socially acceptable (even likable) to neurotypicals/extroverts than 3-4 shots of vodka. This is an unfortunate, but very real fact for many of us. I've heard good things about Phenibut, but (1) it's very difficult to obtain…

> Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety.

I completely disagree and I think you should consider the possibility that alcohol is creating your anxiety in the first place. My years-long struggle with social anxiety disappeared after I decided to quit drinking for good.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#446
post #296
post #23

Funny that they're saying this now because fermented drinks used to protect people from health issues when the water supply was not clean enough to drink.

This is myth which was debunked countless times already, people always drank water (even in the middle ages).

Yes. There's a reason every early human civilization was located near a body of water. Water is necessary for humans. Clean water. Alcohol also doesn't have a significant disinfecting property until at least 30% ABV. And it wasn't until the middle ages that distilled alcohols became common

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#447

I've heard this more lately and can't square it with what I had understood about those super long-lived cultures; like in Italy or Japan, where supposedly they drink moderate amounts of alcohol approximately daily.

Generally, doing things in moderation is way better than going to extremes. Drinking moderately as a culture may be correlated with eating moderately, exercising moderately, etc. In any case it has always seemed clear to me that studies showing beneficial effects of moderate alcohol consumption are heavily influenced by some combination of paying interest-groups and the researchers really wanting to justify a daily b…

I definitely see why you'd be suspicious. But on the other hand, the Okinawa Japanese are definitely one of those groups that DOES live really long and DOES drink moderately. I've traveled extremely widely, used to live in Japan, and (sure, anecdotally) it feels reasonable.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall, for this particular bit of research that I read a couple of months ago, more precisely it states there is no clear discernible level of consumption that could be deemed "safe". That's not really a surprise if you look at the data because it's such a mess. You also can't pin a point at which consumption is a high risk. What does that tell us? You can however surmise that low / moderate consumption is not…

Exactly. I find the claim "no level of alcohol consumption is safe" hyperbolic. You could claim with far more justification that "no amount of driving is safe" since you could be killed pulling out of your driveway but I think most people who drive on a daily basis would find this claim odd. "safety" is a relative, not an absolute condition, since in some sense being alive is unsafe.

This is a pretty odd comparison.

Some amount of food/caloric intake is healthy or required. Too much is bad. Some amount of water intake is healthy or required. Too much is bad.

No amount of arsenic intake is healthy or required. Any is bad. No amount of alcohol intake is healthy or required. Any is bad.

Too much of many things is bad. Any amount of some things is bad.

Safe may be an odd term for it but alcohols impact on ones health is always a negative. If we define bad as a negative effect on ones health it may be a better term than safe here.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#449
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. In all my (many) years, I have found no better path to becoming socially acceptable (even likable) to neurotypicals/extroverts than 3-4 shots of vodka. This is an unfortunate, but very real fact for many of us. I've heard good things about Phenibut, but (1) it's very difficult to obtain…

I’ve recently taken to trying Kava, which seems to be relatively popular among people trying to quit alcohol/benzos/etc. Supposedly it also helps with disinhibition and socialization, but admittedly I haven’t tried it in a social setting so I’m not sure myself. It certainly does relax me and chill me out though without the dumbing down of alcohol. Of course, by the things I’ve seen in those “pop-medical” sites that f…

I love kava. I used to use a lot of substances when I was younger, but quit for health reasons. Still, I get bothered by stress pretty often. Kava at the end of a long day is exactly what I need. Bonus points that there's no habituation.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#450

I've completely cut my drinking down to "only on holidays where I'm expected to", and even then I don't get "drunk". While I never got to a point of drinking where anyone would call it a "problem", I realized that any amount of alcohol probably isn't great for my depression, and I also realized that I actually didn't enjoy being drunk all that much. I don't really miss it much, though it was a little difficult to qui…

You're expected to drink? For religious reasons? I've found it incredibly easy to stop drinking entirely. Nobody has ever questioned why I don't drink alcohol let alone expect me to drink. I figure there are enough people who don't do for religious/cultural reasons that it would be silly to ask and offensive to expect. Even though I probably don't look like someone who abstains for religious/cultural reasons and only do so for personal reasons.
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