No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#181

Post by haroldp » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

RobertRoberts wrote: post #133

BirAdam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All drugs should be decriminalized. Shooting people in drug raids is far worse for those people than are the drugs. Likewise, locking people in cages with other misfits, criminals, malcontents, and addicts isn’t smart (especially considering that drugs are in the prisons too). If the goal is truly harm reduction, people need to simply work to convince drug users to not use drugs (whether those are opioids, alcohol, t…

Slippery slope. What happens when a drug addict looking his next fix attacks someone? This is why we have drug laws to start with, was to protect people. There are no simple answers here.

What you are thinking of as the side effects of drug addiction are mainly the side effects of prohibition. Alcohol addiction is a serious problem, with serious negative consequences. So we made it illegal. And then we had two problems instead of one. Drug laws do not decrease addiction rates. They do make drugs unnecessarily expensive, and force addicts to interact with violent criminal gangs to get them. The negative unintended consequences of drug prohibition are worse than the problem they purport, but fail to solve.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#182

Post by josephcsible » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #46

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

> to at least be consistent. No not be a total joke as a gov't. I love the stories on "refer scare" and the prohibition (which has become some big historical period like the renaissance, merely by retarded gov't policy). And not like we're done with it. New Zealand is considering to ban tobacco sales to the next generation. What could probably go wrong with that? Is age discrimination now all of a sudden okay? (this…

> Is age discrimination now all of a sudden okay?

Hasn't society already decided a while ago that, for some reason, age discrimination is okay as long as it's only against younger people?

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#183

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #42

Of course it isn’t. Drink water. Unfortunately some people believe they can’t enjoy themselves without alcohol. It’s curious: - babies have fun without drinking - kids have fun without drinking - some teens have fun without drinking Then at some point some people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. Edit: explicitly clarifying that I’m only talking about some people he…

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#184

Post by RobertRoberts » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

AQuantized wrote: post #149

RobertRoberts wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope. What happens when a drug addict looking his next fix attacks someone? This is why we have drug laws to start with, was to protect people. There are no simple answers here.

Arrest them for assault...? Basically every study or reasonable implementation of decriminalization has shown both fewer negative effects of drug use, and in many cases decreased drug use itself. So there is in fact a simple answer, and I think you'll find that drug laws were likely conceived much more cynically than for the protection of the common person.

We have already (as a society) decided we will no longer forcibly help people, so what do you do with someone that hurts others to feed their addiction?

Put them all in jail for every little offense? Fine them? (they have no money) Force them into rehab? (another form of jail) Let the roam the streets attacking people? (recycle through jail or rehab)

No, it's not simple.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#185

Post by kmonad » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #18

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

> if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. Please do not decide policy using this kind of reasoning. Maybe we should legalise more stuff, but “worse things are legal” is not a good reason. > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. — Ralph Waldo…

That is one amazing quote. Thanks for making it known to me.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#186

Post by hbosch » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #21

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

I don't know, the ways in which they stack up is like apples and oranges. Cigarettes are certainly bad for you, and it's known they cause cancer but cigarettes don't have the same severity when it comes to withdrawl in my understanding. Alcohol withdrawl can cause hallucinations, seizures, even death. Also, I would say the danger is greater with alcohol because it impairs your judgement in a far greater way than cigarettes... have you ever been scared of someone who is driving while smoking?

Extrapolated out over time, I would guess that alcoholism is a cofactor in more deaths annually than cigarettes (edit: that is to say, deaths not caused directly by drinking, including drink driving, but conditions such as diabetes and heart disease which are greatly exacerbated by drinking for example... I wonder if someone who dies of cirrhosis gets chalked up as a death by alcohol?)

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#187

Post by qwytw » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

jbirer wrote: post #124

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Legalize medicinal meth.

Isn't it already legal if you have prescription? (In pill form ofcourse)

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#188

Post by f38zf5vdt » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

jppope wrote: post #14

> The evidence is clear: any level of alcohol consumption can lead to loss of healthy life. No it isn't. The studies change on this constantly. Literally, it is why they are making their policy- because its confusing to people. They also need to conduct a longitudinal study (or more than 1) to prove this... and guess what? They won't do it.

They've been consistent on the positive cardiovascular effects from mild consumption of red wine forever.

> 48 animal and 37 human studies were included in data extraction following screening. Significant improvements in measures of blood pressure and vascular function following RWP were seen in 84% and 100% of animal studies, respectively. Human studies indicated significant improvements in systolic blood pressure overall (− 2.6 mmHg, 95% CI: [− 4.8, − 0.4]), with a greater improvement in pure-resveratrol studies alone (− 3.7 mmHg, 95% CI: [− 7.3, − 0.0]). No significant effects of RWP were seen in diastolic blood pressure or flow-mediated dilation (FMD) of the brachial artery.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-020-02247-8

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#189

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

jppope wrote: post #14

> The evidence is clear: any level of alcohol consumption can lead to loss of healthy life. No it isn't. The studies change on this constantly. Literally, it is why they are making their policy- because its confusing to people. They also need to conduct a longitudinal study (or more than 1) to prove this... and guess what? They won't do it.

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#190

Post by aerojoe23 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

jppope wrote: post #14

> The evidence is clear: any level of alcohol consumption can lead to loss of healthy life. No it isn't. The studies change on this constantly. Literally, it is why they are making their policy- because its confusing to people. They also need to conduct a longitudinal study (or more than 1) to prove this... and guess what? They won't do it.

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