No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation • Hacker News Board

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#161

Post by parasubvert » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #95

jdlyga wrote: post #22

Interesting how there's a major shift in the knowledge about risks of things like sugar, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. And it usually turns out there was an industry group involved in sort of a coverup. The lesson here is to take any health claims or dismissal or risks with a grain of salt when there's a big industry behind it.

One of my favorite examples of this is how coconut oil is advertised all over youtube by thousands of influencers as a superfood that must be a part of a healthy diet. (Especially since it's hardly an oil in my opinion -- it's partially solid at room temperature) There's absolutely no reliable evidence that coconut oil has any beneficial effects on the human body, and I really don't see why anybody would believe that…

Because there is ample evidence that saturated fats are not bad for you, or at least no where near as bad as previous science led us to believe.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#162

Post by caeril » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety.

In all my (many) years, I have found no better path to becoming socially acceptable (even likable) to neurotypicals/extroverts than 3-4 shots of vodka. This is an unfortunate, but very real fact for many of us. I've heard good things about Phenibut, but (1) it's very difficult to obtain, and (2) it is also apparently habit-forming.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#163

Post by boringg » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

Is anyone surprised by this? Alcohol being good for the body was pushed by the Alcohol lobby a long time ago and made its way into the mainstream consciousness. It has lingered because people enjoy drinking and because of powerful incentives not to change.

How large is the alcohol industry and how many people are directly tied to it?

Am I saying we shouldn't drink? No the amount of stimulating conversations I have had with people is somewhat a function of alcohol and being more comfortable to talk about ideas in a less formal setting.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#164

Post by Alex3917 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

shafyy wrote: post #103

pkulak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

Smoking is for sure worse than alcohol consumption: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-by-risk-... Global yearly deaths by smoking: 7.1 million Global yearly deaths by alcohol usage: 2.84 million

The difference is that the average smoker dies at 80, and the average alcoholic dies at 35.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#165

Post by josephcsible » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

michaelmior wrote: post #41

pkulak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's worse than the current wave of synthetic opioids? I think I could even make a good case for cigarettes being worse than alcohol.

The comment never claimed that alcohol is worse than synthetic opioids or cigarettes. The comment stated it is one of the worst drugs.

"one of the" is weasel words.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#166

Post by michaelbuckbee » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

greenpresident wrote: post #19

mmastrac wrote: post #11

Alcohol is one of the worst "drugs" on a personal/societal harm scale - if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. While we're at it, let's de-stigmatize the abuse of substances and treat it like a real mental health issue.

David Nutt did important work in this area. See for example his scale of drug harmfulness here: (Edit: see archive link below) And https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014067361...

That's interesting, I do wish it had a few more items on the "lower" end of the harm spectrum, just to help me gauge this better. Things like Caffeine, or the other "Energy Drink" supplements.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#167

Post by 988747 » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #116

streblo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NIH itself says different: * 85.6 percent of people ages 18 and older reported that they drank alcohol at some point in their lifetime * 69.5 percent reported that they drank in the past year * 54.9 percent reported that they drank in the past month https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sh...

54.9 percent reported that they drank in the past month Consider this: I am in the group that can say "they drank in the last month." It is also simultaneously true that I "drink little or no alcohol" (by any reasonable standard). How can that be? Well, if you took my last 12 months worth of alcohol consumption and calculated my "average drinks per month" the number would round to 0. So yes, I do drink, and by happen…

This question shouldn't be asked in January (because of all those New Years Eve celebrations) :)

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#168

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

999900000999 wrote: post #123

sokoloff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m generally pro-legalization, but there are many things that we hypothesize are safe but do not know the long-term effects of and, within living memory, have discovered that many things initially thought safe were not. People were taking X-ray images of shoe fit in department stores, we used thalidomide to treat morning sickness, etc. What society says is legal has an effect on how it is perceived and how frequentl…

I can guarantee you the most dangerous part of using any substance is our legal system. Legalize everything for anyone 21 or older, and while we're at it, raise the enlistment age to 21. If you're old enough to die for this country, you should be old enough to light a j in it.

[deleted]

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#169

Post by kergonath » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if we're going to tolerate this at large, we should probably consider legalizing everything else that's less harmful to at least be consistent. Please do not decide policy using this kind of reasoning. Maybe we should legalise more stuff, but “worse things are legal” is not a good reason. > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. — Ralph Waldo…

Consistency in legal matters seems like a good and necessary thing for ensuring fairness. What is the basis for Emerson’s quote to apply here?

Unless we have a perfect metric quantifying the “amount of harm” for every substance or practice, we will never have this kind of consistency. And then, there is the issue of harm to self versus harm to others, and how we can weight both aspects.

Consistency is in the eye of the beholder. For some people, sex is just as bad as alcohol, and they include some kind of spiritual damage as “harm to self” in their analysis. These things are necessarily subjective. Psychological damage cannot be quantified either.

So it follows that consistency is subjective, and even if a legal framework could be consistent from the point of view of a certain group of people by chance, it would not be consistent in the eyes of everyone.

Re: No amount of alcohol is good for the heart, says World Heart Federation

#170

Post by asdf_snar » Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #42

Of course it isn’t. Drink water. Unfortunately some people believe they can’t enjoy themselves without alcohol. It’s curious: - babies have fun without drinking - kids have fun without drinking - some teens have fun without drinking Then at some point some people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened. Edit: explicitly clarifying that I’m only talking about some people he…

> Then at some point people, as adults, feel like they have to drink to enjoy themselves? I wonder what happened.

It feels like this question is disingenuous. You don't need fire starter to start a fire either, but wouldn't it be silly to conclude fire starter doesn't make starting a fire easier? Moderate alcohol consumption in an intimate environment is a lot of fun.

Put differently, if alcohol didn't present such serious health risks, I wouldn't be making an effort to cut it out of my social circles. As it stands, though, my friends, family and I have started referring to it as "poison", just to be totally transparent about what we're doing when we meet for drinks.