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AI could end foreign-language subtitles

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Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#131

Post by Morgawr »

KeepFlying wrote: post #117
pavlov wrote: post #114

I want the opposite: subtitles on everything, just not directly on the picture. Opera houses have subtitles on a separate text-only screen (or screens embedded in seats). Why can’t I have a device like that at home? A narrow subtitle display that sits below the TV, sort of like the Touch Bar on the previous-generation MacBooks. I’d buy that.

Well now you've got me thinking. That has to be very feasible for any content you own the file for, but I wonder how steaming services currently handle subtitles. Are they embedded into the video stream or are they their own channel? Could a third party pull them out and pass them along to a separate device like that? Does anyone with more experience have any idea?

Definitely not embedded into the video stream, at least for Netflix or Youtube. There's actually extensions that take the subtitles and manipulate them (even put them outside of the video stream) so you can use them for various language-learning purposes. Look at stuff like Language Reactor (https://www.languagereactor.com/), previously Language Learning with Netflix. There's specific browser extensions like subs2srs and yomichan (https://animecards.site/yomichansetup/) which are very common in Japanese language learning communities for people to use on subtitle lines to get direct translation/dictionary entries of certain words and be able to send them directly to Anki (SRS flashcard software).

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#132

Post by derekp7 »

creakingstairs wrote: post #89
tompetry wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very surprised more people watched the dubbed version of Squid Game over the subtitles. I saw a friend watching the dubbed version and to me it didn't "preserve the original performances" as you say. Surprised subtitles are a barrier, I enjoy them personally, but I guess they have the data to know. I have tested out services that translate your "own voice" to another language and it was pretty cool, although I c…

When I've moved to New Zealand, I was taken aback at how many people just could not stand subtitles. This and your mention about 'barrier' reminded me of Bong Joon Ho (director of Parasite) calling this out: "Once you overcome the 1-inch-tall barrier of subtitles, you will be introduced to so many more amazing films."

The problem I have with subtitles is the same reason I could never enjoy comics / graphic novels. I can either read and process the text, or look at / process the action (pictures). For me it is the same thing as trying to pay attention to two conference calls at the same time with a phone in each ear (is it just me that can't do this?). And it isn't just the mental processing, the rest of the screen sort of disappears from my perception when reading subtitles.

Now silent films aren't a problem, as the text is shown before / after a given scene. So there is no processing two things at the same time. And it isn't a reading problem in general, because I'm an avid book reader and can consume books quite fast (although I only enjoy them if I read them slower and contemplate each scene).

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#133

Post by bovermyer »

A couple points here.

1. AI might be able to prevent bad dubbing/subbing, but it will not be able to compete with _good_ dubbing/subbing in our lifetimes. There's an artistry there that no AI can match.

2. I love subtitles and prefer original audio + English subtitles in anything foreign-language. Besides the voices matching up to the movement of the actors' lips and thus not breaking my immersion, I also adore hearing how familiar emotions are reflected in languages I do not know. It makes me feel more connected to humanity.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#134

Post by spc476 »

FredPret wrote: post #73
aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

It would be hilarious to see famous actors deepfaked into speaking foreign languages in a feature film. I suspect it simply won't work - translating accurately is really hard, but translating elegantly is frequently impossible. Some things are just easier/punchier/funnier to say in language A than B

Laurel and Hardy would refilm many of their shorts in different languages, where they were speaking the foreign language. I always thought that was pretty cool.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#135

Post by ncpa-cpl »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #105
dheera wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree, I often much prefer subtitles to dubbing as I can hear the original voice artist's tone of expression as it was intended to be. Also, languages are bridges, not barriers, by exposing yourself more to another language you will learn it if you don't reject it.

That's a cute sentiment but there is no evidence that merely being exposed to a foreign language necessarily allows you to learn that language. I think you're confusing the movie 13th Warrior for reality. I have friends who religiously watch subtitled anime only and they are no closer to learning Japanese in any real sense of the word than a person who would watch the dubs, except for picking up a stray random word h…

English and Japanese are very different.

I speak Spanish. Subtitles have helped me a lot when languages are similar. I watched three seasons of a Catalan TV show subtitled in Spanish, and now I can follow conversations and read it. Before that I wasn't able to understand spoken Catalan.

Some language pairs were this may work are:

- Spanish/Catalan

- Portuguese/Spanish

- Dutch/German

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#136

Post by chupchap »

I'm prefer subtitles as opposed to poorly voiced and dubbed versions that are prevelant. Also how will marvel.ai add nuance that is missing in subtitles? The missing nuance is not always about tonality but the context that is missed by machine translation.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#137

Post by chupchap »

the_af wrote: post #130

I like listening to the original audio of foreign movies and it's partly how I learned English, and how I pick up random words from languages I can't really speak. I also respect actors and actresses enough to appreciate their performance includes their original voices. I'm a fast reader and subtitles are like a second nature to me, to the point I don't "remember" having read them (likewise I sometimes don't remember…

I dont understand Spanish or Portuguese, but I think a lot of emotion that is conveyed in the way the languages are spoken is lost in the dubbing. Reading the subtitles and just hearing the actors say the same in Spanish conveys it better for me.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#139

Post by hiptobecubic »

aeturnum wrote: post #3

This would be a lovely option to have and I find it hilarious that anyone imagines that subtitles are some kind of problem we are trying to get out of. Adding text to movies has a huge array of advantages: it preserves the original performances, it makes the dialog accessible to people with hearing or auditory processing disabilities, they can be multiplexed in a way that audio cannot, etc. Obviously it would be wond…

I don't know. I'm not sure it's really possible to overestimate how many people hate reading and view it as a chore. Even without that not-so-charitable interpretation, there is still the "TV is on but I'm focused on something else" use case. Subtitles don't work at all for that.

Re: AI could end foreign-language subtitles

#140

Post by LetThereBeLight »

It is striking to me that this article doesn't discuss the negative impact such a technology will have on actors and translators. In fact, the author makes the surprising claim that there is a shortage of translators and voice actors, which is very hard to believe.
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