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Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

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Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#141

Post by jrib »

Jach wrote: post #126
l30n4da5 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary…

I've thought about taking several months between jobs. Having to deal with the health insurance aspect has always felt overly daunting however. Both from the financial aspect and even just the "how do I shop for this thing" perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#142

Post by dimeatree »

The burnout game is hard, you absolutely should tell your work about it. If they can't support you, you then need to decide what works best for you. But remember, you can always make money - health is fleeting.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#143

Post by moneywoes »

tomxor wrote: post #137
maerF0x0 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piling on here to add gym's dont have the monopoly on exercise! Consider any of the following they all count: * Hiking in the woods or parks * Dancing lessons * Running, Walking, inline skating, long boarding, bicycling, and really anything remotely similar * martial arts in a dojo / club * Strength training doing calisthenics at one of those outdoor gym things. Keep in mind traditional strength training is great[1]…

My little anecdote: I've personally found Rock Climbing to be extremely rewarding in highly varied ways - it is a very mental activity, problem solving, but in a physical and personal way that is not in conflict with relief from a cognitive job. It's physically one of the most balanced activities for the body. It can take you to truly awesome places and make you appreciate nature more. It has many sub styles, some wi…

Is it not dangerous outside? Anecdotal but I'm a huge hiker and almost slipped trying to climb black tusk ( near Whistler). Would you suggest a gym? They seem pretty pricey in contrast to more conventional gyms.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#144

Post by pbrb »

If you have having issues with sleep, talk to your doctor about it. The last period of burnout I went through, sleep was a major issue. I could not sleep, no matter what. The stress and anxiety from work would keep me up or make me have trouble falling back asleep whenever I did wake up in the middle of the night. The only answer I could come up with was to eat an edible and drink some whiskey. It helped me get sleep, but terrible, horrible quality sleep.

Eventually, I had to go to my doctor and deal with it. They gave me a few different sleep drugs to try, and I found one that worked extremely well at not forcing me to sleep like a sedative, but helping me fall asleep and to stay asleep. Using the sleep meds and strictly enforcing my work hours plus a 2 week vacation was all that saved me (at this point I didn't care anymore, I simply got done what I could in 8hrs and the rest could fuck off).

It took about a month of 8hrs minimum per night of good quality sleep, but man did it make a big difference. After that everything mostly fell back into place. I've since kept the more strict work hours and have taken on a role that actually has me learning new things vs. grinding out mass amounts of tedious but important work. I do work too much still, but I cap it ~ 50hrs a week and take as much flexibility as I can with it. No meetings until 10am and I was online until 8pm the night before? Cool, I'll be in at 10 and will hit the gym before work so I have more family time after work. No more bending backwards to get everything done.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#145

Post by tomxor »

moneywoes wrote: post #143
tomxor wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My little anecdote: I've personally found Rock Climbing to be extremely rewarding in highly varied ways - it is a very mental activity, problem solving, but in a physical and personal way that is not in conflict with relief from a cognitive job. It's physically one of the most balanced activities for the body. It can take you to truly awesome places and make you appreciate nature more. It has many sub styles, some wi…

Is it not dangerous outside? Anecdotal but I'm a huge hiker and almost slipped trying to climb black tusk ( near Whistler). Would you suggest a gym? They seem pretty pricey in contrast to more conventional gyms.

It's an inherently dangerous activity... but not as much as most people think, for instance I consider skiing or even mountain-biking more dangerous, because you have no safety at all. With climbing safety is part of the game, I fall on a regular basis (If i'm doing sports climbing I will actually intentionally climb to the point of failure and fall, because it's extremely safe to, and part of mental acclimatisation). We use ropes for a reason (except when we don't, but that's another topic). When you're outside the danger does depend a lot on style, you can stick to sports climbing (bolts set in the wall just like indoors), which is the safest. Trad climbing admittedly takes a long time to get to the point when you know it's safe to fall on gear, and even then it's a probability you are constantly calculating in your head - and part of trad is also knowing when you cannot fall - these are actually part of the challenge that can be enjoyable, although I realise that's hard to understand for many people. This is a topic that has been discussed to death over the years and I could go on, but I'll just leave it here: there are many styles, you can pick the safest, it's a personal choice.

I can't compare the pricing on climbing gyms to regular ones, because I can't remember the last time I went to a "regular" one, I don't think they are unreasonable but that may depend on the country. Here in the UK the number have grown a lot over the last couple decades so that there is healthy competition between them. Another aspect is that once the climbing gym is a supplement and you can go outdoors, it doesn't feel so pricey.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#146

Post by pitched »

dnautics wrote: post #139

Disclaimer, I am not a doctor or a psychologist. I have a contrarian opinion (that I have also posted here several times) that burnout is not merely a symptom of overwork but actually a symptom of missed behavioural prediction error: Your brain has taught itself that effort => failure, and so the motivation to put more effort into things is decreased. The first step to understanding and overcoming it is a root cause…

I’ve heard it said that burnout is: exhaustion, inefficacy and depersonalization. It sounds like you’ve spent a lot of time on the second cause and maybe the third one. If you’re exhausted too on top of that, some time off before working back up efficacy is very helpful.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#148

Post by danuker »

musesum wrote: post #130

I've gone through two burnouts in my career. The first time around, I tried CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy), with limited results. Recently, I followed the Huberman protocol for sleep [1] and daily tools [2], with profound results. Recovery time was respectively 12 months (CBT) and 3 months (Huberman). YMMV [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm1TxQj9IsQ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4

The first video took me quite a while. I watched it on NewPipe with subtitles on at 3x.

TL;DW:

1. As soon as you wake up each morning, expose yourself to 5-10 minutes of the sun, or the brightest light you can find (ideally above 10000 lux, going outside is much more effective than a lamp or window).

2. At the end of the day, reduce light, especially blue light. Ideally, also go out during sunset, to give your body a cue that the day is ending.

3. Mindfully time when to eat and exercise (details did not fit in the 1.3h video). In evenings, disconnect or meditate to relax.

4. Consider the drugs you take and their effects on the circadian rhythm. Magnesium threonate 300mg makes you sleepy.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#149

Post by euciwhqkxie »

dnautics wrote: post #139

Disclaimer, I am not a doctor or a psychologist. I have a contrarian opinion (that I have also posted here several times) that burnout is not merely a symptom of overwork but actually a symptom of missed behavioural prediction error: Your brain has taught itself that effort => failure, and so the motivation to put more effort into things is decreased. The first step to understanding and overcoming it is a root cause…

This is a great advice! I've been using a similar healing strategy for my last burn out. Essentially the desire to do something is the brain's expected reward for doing such thing. Burn out happens when the expected reward has become negative due to recent cycles of the feedback loop (i.e. constantly failing on a project). What you want to do is something that is guaranteed to succeed. After some cycle of work => success feedbacks (how long this takes various) you'll feel better about work and be as productive as before.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#150

Post by gazoakley »

tomxor wrote: post #115
orasis wrote: post #11

The bad news is it’s going to take a long time to heal. The good news is you can come back happier than you can imagine. In an ideal scenario you would quit working entirely to focus on your health, but I’m guessing this is not an option. You need to focus on the body first. The most important is sleep, but that is also difficult to address directly, so it’s best to focus on diet and exercise. You’ll likely have to d…

> For exercise, you just have to find something enjoyable enough to do I can't emphasise this enough, staying interested in doing gym exercise for the sake of fitness alone is not sustainable for most people - and boring even if you can. Exercise is an opportunity to find something physical you enjoy spending your time doing, and this can be as much a mental relief as a physical one. This is similar to how most of us…

> Remember this does not only mean team sports, there is more to the world than what school PE exposed us to, there will definitely be something out there that interests you.

My biggest bugbear about school PE is the focus on team sports. I know some schools want to build their sports teams, but if there is one goal of PE class it should be ensuring every child finds at least 1 form of exercise they really enjoy.

I’d encourage you to persist in finding something you can get into and stick with. I’ve really got into obstacle course racing events like Tough Mudder and started with the shortest distance - everyone there is helping everyone else through it. Find what works for you.

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