Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 277 posts

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#121

Post by sulam »

foepys wrote: post #108
sulam wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. That said, "the end of the day" is not the beginning. Yes, some people will behave the way you describe. It can be hard to be sure you can trust another human being who you know will…

> At the end of the day, the business has to do the right thing for the organization, even when that's not to the benefit of an individual in the organization. How dystopian. When a colleague of mine burned out they talked to their boss and the boss assured them to take as much time as they needed. Then the boss made sure that everybody took as much load off of them as possible so they don't have to worry about proje…

How utopian.

I manage a team with hundreds of engineers on it. If I have someone who is taking a year off (with pay I presume), I have to give their work to people. Once enough people do that, I have exhausted the capacity of the team and will surely see the team enter a spiral of burnout that I can only solve by adding dramatically more people or radically reducing our commitments. This will negatively affect our business, potentially putting the entire team's jobs at risk.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#122

Post by heavyset_go »

See a psychologist and/or psychiatrist, seriously.

You're dealing with your mental health here, don't rely on posts on the internet to handle a serious health problem. Burn out can easily spiral into something like clinical depression or anxiety disorders, and then you'll be dealing with the burden of burn out and additional health problems.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#123

Post by rowathay »

bastardoperator wrote: post #101
ok_dad wrote: post #42

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. > Should I take time off? How much? Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. > Is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Probably reduce the volume of work you are doing or do something that you care about more. > Is there anyt…

I had an opposite experience. I went to my manager and described how I felt when I was feeling like OP early in the pandemic. I couldn't tell if it was anxiety, burnout or both. He recommended an immediate two week vacation to clear my head and told me to plan my next vacation for two weeks 6 months out from my last vacation so that there was a constant light at the end of the tunnel. He was empathetic, and explained…

This is excellent, it’s great you had this experience. Mine was the opposite: we hired a replacement for my former boss, and at our first 1:1, I told her I was desperately burned out and unable to really accomplish much. She said, you can take vacation after we accomplish some big team goals.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#124

Post by convolvatron »

tomxor wrote: post #115
orasis wrote: post #11

The bad news is it’s going to take a long time to heal. The good news is you can come back happier than you can imagine. In an ideal scenario you would quit working entirely to focus on your health, but I’m guessing this is not an option. You need to focus on the body first. The most important is sleep, but that is also difficult to address directly, so it’s best to focus on diet and exercise. You’ll likely have to d…

> For exercise, you just have to find something enjoyable enough to do I can't emphasise this enough, staying interested in doing gym exercise for the sake of fitness alone is not sustainable for most people - and boring even if you can. Exercise is an opportunity to find something physical you enjoy spending your time doing, and this can be as much a mental relief as a physical one. This is similar to how most of us…

agree completely. never into sports and absoutely hate gyms.

but i started doing manual labor in a creative field, and getting around town using a bike and i'm much better for it.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#125

Post by nvarsj »

cassianoleal wrote: post #120
nvarsj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self medicating is one of the best ways to become addicted. I think drugs can be useful, but it's also an easy way to escape from your issues, or can make them worse. It depends a lot on the individual and their state of mind.

I agree, which is why I wrote "if used correctly". This can mean self-medicating if you know what you're doing, but otherwise these days there are professionals qualified to help. I doubt psychedelics will be used to escape from your issues, but yes - they can make them worse if you're not careful.

It's really hard to self medicate when you're head is in the wrong place. It's much easier to abuse in moments of weakness. Like drinking when depressed, etc., which can just become a downward spiral. I agree with the original commentator, who says to avoid drugs as a way to deal, as tempting as they may be - and I've been there.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#126

Post by Jach »

l30n4da5 wrote: post #95
ok_dad wrote: post #42

> Should I tell my boss and/or team? No, they will stab you in the back, no matter how much you think they won't. > Should I take time off? How much? Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. > Is there something in my working environment I should try to change? Probably reduce the volume of work you are doing or do something that you care about more. > Is there anyt…

> > Should I take time off? How much? > Yes, if possible several months or a year so you have time to get fully away from the grind. I honestly do not know a single person who has the funds saved up to do this.

There are a lot of us. After a six year stint, with my current burn rate (that I expect to decrease later this year) it'd take 20 years for my savings (read index funds) to run out if they didn't grow at all. If you've been working in tech for more than a year and don't have a year's living expenses saved up/invested in liquid assets, you might want to reconsider your spending habits, or your suspiciously low salary (maybe you're not in the US?). Sure exceptions exist and it can be perfectly rational to spend almost everything now for some higher utility, especially if you plan to save later, but having the requisite income/spending ratio to save up a year's expenses is not hard for software engineers (in the US).

I second the suggestion of several months to a year of time off, but admittedly it's scary to consider getting a job afterwards, since you'll not have the existing job as leverage and some places will question the gap. Depending on the company it may be possible to "boomerang" back in if your leave is under one year without having to do the interview grind again with them.

Unfortunately burnout can take over a year to recover from (if ever 100%), so there's also a reasonable question of whether that extended break is going to be long enough. Maybe OP just needs a month or two, but maybe they'll need a couple years. It's hard to say whether it's better to take a minor break now and then come back until they near the breaking point again, or just power through until they literally can't, saving as much as they can so when they can't they'll have as long as they might need to rest -- which may be longer than if they just stopped now due to the accumulated damage.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#127

Post by madrox »

First off, I'd like to point you to Richard Feynman talking about burnout [1].:

While taking time off isn't a bad idea, you may find you immediately burn out again on returning to work. The goal should be figuring out how to work sustainably. I'm sure I'll echo a lot of other voices here, but here is some practical advice from a manager and someone who's recovered from burnout:

First, if you've been working more than forty hours a week, scale it back. Let your manager know you've been having health issues and will be trying out lifestyle adjustments which may mean your velocity could drop as you cut back to a more sustainable schedule. This is important, since your velocity is going to drop no matter what and you want to get ahead of that with your manager. If anyone wants more detail and you don't feel comfortable saying no, focus on the symptoms and not the cause. Sharing that you're burnt out can inadvertantly come out as blame.

Second, when you aren't working, don't use computers or do anything remotely similar to your work routine for at least a couple weeks. You may not know what to do with yourself at first. Exercise, hiking, or a non-tech side project are things to consider. The important thing is to find something to think about that isn't work.

Finally, SLEEP! This will likely be the hardest part, as your burnout related symptoms are ultimately caused by poor sleep. The other steps you're taking are in service of making this step easier. Allocate at least 9 hours of time for sleep every night. Melatonin can help in the short term if you find it difficult to sleep early enough, but keep in mind you'll probably have lots of dreams and wake up groggy until you've adjusted.

Burn out is common in tech because most of us love what we do. However, love of what we do plus stress can mean an inability to disengage, which results in poor sleep. Poor sleep creates a general feelings of unwellness and inability to think clearly. This will happen to the best of us from time to time. However, if you prioritize your recovery, you'll bounce back pretty fast.

Good luck to you!

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3874875 is the HN discussion for this post (the original HN link is broken) https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/kilcup.1/262/feynman.html

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#128

Post by giantg2 »

cassianoleal wrote: post #119
giantg2 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They are generally considered physiologically safe and do not lead to dependence or addiction." The way this is written means: They are generally considered physiologically safe. They do not lead to dependence or addiction. Also, you did not quote 'generally' in your response (the one with underscores).

Direct quote from my original response: "Psychedelics are generally not addictive". > They do not lead to dependence or addiction. Thanks for making my point. Edit: Also thanks for the downvote. Being that you then proceeded to _not_ counter me with any real arguments, it also helps to make my point. Edit 2: (this will be a bit longer) I think I see what you mean, and I apologise if my writing and understanding was n…

Please see my prior linked PubMed article about psychological addiction.

My point is that psychological addiction is a concern for burnt out people looking for a solution, or people who quit their job and have time to fill. Psychological addiction is different than chemical addiction.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#129

Post by Groxx »

umvi wrote: post #91
tinyhouse wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you only eliminate sweets, chocolate, etc. or also bread, pasta, and all other things that break into glucose.

Just eliminating sources of corn syrup and added sugar is a great first step, IMO. We cut out soda, sweets, and other added-sugar crap (but kept bread, milk, pasta, fruit, honey, etc) and that alone was a big improvement.

Personally, just eliminating obviously-sweet things has been enough to make me not even want them in quantities I used to like. I still like things of course, but more than a little candy or soda is sorta sickening after you get away from it for a while. It becomes self-reinforcing.

Re: Ask HN: Burned Out. What Now?

#130

Post by musesum »

I've gone through two burnouts in my career. The first time around, I tried CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy), with limited results. Recently, I followed the Huberman protocol for sleep [1] and daily tools [2], with profound results. Recovery time was respectively 12 months (CBT) and 3 months (Huberman). YMMV

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm1TxQj9IsQ

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXvDEmo6uS4

Post reply on HN